Suciniac

When D. Wade has three rings and a scoring title (Kobe will this year) then I'll listen to the "Wade is better than Bryant" arguement. But until that...enjoy one of the best players in the game ever to step onto the court and shut the fuck up.


Well I agree that on a player to player comparision Kobe is better than Wade is right now.I am not a big Wade fan but I disagree Kobe is better just because he has three rings and a scoring title.There are a lot of great players who didn't win any ring or scoring title.(John Stockton comes to mind).The Key to any team success is right balance and above all chemistry.Detroit has noone on it's roster that is as close to Bryant and Wade but they have been to the finals the last couple years and on course this year too.

Besides don't forget Wade is just one year removed from his sophomore season and the situation is just perfect for Bryant in L.A. to capture the scoring title, and if anyone is scoring 100 again this is the perfect time.Now, bryant can say he has a poor supporting cast and the fact that they are in the plaoffs picture seems to justify his actions.

The fact is Bryant has always been among the top of the fiel goal attempt list for years now and I don't see any changes amytime soon.Wether they will eventually land Yao Ming or any other High scoring teammate to complement Bryant's skills, he will always remain a score first player.

Even with the arrival of Phil Jackson for a second stint.Kobe rarely plays within the context of the offence.I am no triangle offence expert but I am sure taking your defender one on one and pulling up for a three pointer isn't exactly what Phil Jackson is preaching.Sure in the first half he will play along cutting and just moving around the basket until he gets the ball from a teammate but the minute his teammates start missing their shot or it seems like the game is getting out of hand, he will abandon the traingle and revert to his old self.

The only reason noone is complaining about him taking half of or more of the teams shot is they are winning(for now).Sure he sat out the 4th quarter when he scored 62 but I wonder how long will his coach and his teammates play along before they start losing.

Because as good as Bryant is I honestly dodn't believe he can shoot his way to the playoffs at the expense of his teammates being mare spectators.At some point Odom may demand a trade,
Phil may decide he has had enough and not return next year.Then we will truly see wether he is all about winning or just trying to salvage the season by taking the scoring title.

And finally Wade can never duplicate what Bryant is doing, if they were to change teams and we all know what happened and is going to happen if Bryant were in Miami.I don't have any problems saying Bryant is better than Wade but the Bryant vs Jordan is plain stupid.

koЯnut

Very true, however...their balance is like no other team. They get consistant performances night after night from all 5 starters.....not to mention a decent bench.

In the case of the Lakers, you never know what you are going to get. Thats why they won't go far in the playoffs. The chemistry and consistency just isn't there.



Bryant never says he has a poor supporting cast. He loves his teamates. But they are a new unit together. Teams can't be just thrown together and expect to win it all. They have to find an indentity. Look at Miami....they go and sign three pretty decent players this year, throw off their chemistry a bit, and they aren't the same team winning wise as last year.

And you are right....W's mean you are justified in the way you play your game. Kobe is doing what he has to do to win games...and until they find another reason that works he will continue too.




Funny how nobody ever talks about Vince, or Iverson when it comes to FG attempts. Fact is, someone has to be at the top of that list....why not Kobe.



Are you kidding me?? The Triangle is designed to get your top scorer the ball, and to open up the floor. This gives the scorer a chance at the basket or to dish if he gets double teamed (or tripled). Watch the games....Kobe does pass alot only to see 7 out of 10 times a teamate miss a pretty easy shot. After awhile you have to just say fuck it.....this is my time to carry this team.

Kobe usually doesn't take three's unless they are down or if he is going for the kill. Odom takes more three's than Kobe.



Again.....if this was LeBron or Wade doing the things Kobe has doen this year.....nobody would say anything negative. They would just say....he's doing what he has to do to win. You think that people in ATL care that Micheal Vick takes 10+ rushes a game?? No, because he can create results for the team.



Odom is happy with his role and admits he needs to be more consistent. As for Phil....he supports Kobe. When you get a W, alot of things wash. Another thing is everyone seems to forget how good of a defender this guy is. One of the best in the league. You can't say that for Wade, Vince, or Lebron.

My point is.....if the team was doing things on a more consistant level every game....Kobe could be the "team player" you all want him to be. Give this team another year or two...and they could be a 3rd or 4th seed team.

Suciniac

First of all good to know you take your Basketball seriously and you are the only one I know so far who still supports Bryant after what he went through.



Yeah, he never says it I am just saying he can if he wished to(I am sure nobody's arguing).The loving part...... we all know what happenned with Shaq.


Emmm ..........nicely put.




Yes, it does open up the floor because of all the cutting motion you have to implement but the finishing is supposed to be under or near the basket, and the shot distribution is much higher and all 5 players are involved.Whenever Kobe has gone on a monstrous scoring rampage(pretty much all season) he first receives the ball at the wing from anyone and then proceeds one on one taking it to the hoop or pulling up for a jumper while 4 other players are just spectating.This I assure you is not the traingle offence.As for passing, his teammates miss 7 out of 10 times because a)They are simply not capable and realiable shooters. b)Kobe only makes assist passes and rarely does it give up for the flow of the offence.


Get real man, for the record, Odom has 218/477 FG and 36/109 3FG in 42 games and Kobe has 496/1104 FG and 75/215 3FG in 40 games because he missed 2 with suspension.I am not saying this is right or wrong but you look at the differrence in number of shots of the top two scorers of the same team and it's ridiculous to say the least.



I am certain with the teammates both Lebron and especially Wade have, if they were taking that many shots and scoring that many points there are bound to be criticisms not only from the media but the team also.


He was a good dfender and I am sure he will turn it on if he needs to but when you are busy scoring 35+ points/game it doesn't leave much energy to defend and hence this year he is not defending as well as he used to.


Unless they land a big offseason signing or get an absoulute steal in the Rookie draft you are far too optimistic,Spurs,Dallas and Phoenix have all their core players locked up and they will remain in the top three.Memphis is far better a team than Lakers and if weren't for injuries, Denver is a team that could crack and remain in the top three.

Lastly there's no doubt Odom has to be more consistent and produce better but to do that he needs the ball in his hands.He can't do anytihing if Bryant is running a one man circus.The way Bryant is playing now is very similar to what Iverson was doing in Philly and Air Jordan himself was doing before he got Pippen and Phil.This is just disappointing because,whereas Jordan learned to be a better teammate and leader upon Phil and Pippen's arrival, finally get the rings and not just be known as a talented player.Bryant is exactly on the other way around, he got his rings first with Phil and Shaq who complemented his skills and talent so well and was considered the ultimate teammate and sidekick of shaq.Now he finds himself without a good team, a coach who's tore him apart in his book and a selfish player tag whose chances of getting a ring again seems remote in the near future.

jleelakers43

Only one? I don't think so. I know a lot of ppl still support Kobe. Yes, he made a huge mistake, haters need to get over it.

Suciniac

First of all that statement was not directed at you, secondly if you read carefully without twisting the meaning of what i said it says," you are the only one I KNOW".I didn't say you are the ONLY ONE. Now,If I don't know anymore ppl with the exception of you, now, who supports Bryant then it's not my fault, is it?

And I never said anywhere I hate Bryant.The fact is I don't idolize him either.I could care less if he were to win a Championship or go the Isiah Rider way.

Xtreme3384

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I like vince a whole lot better... but kobe is the guy that i would rather have if the game was on the line..

Weezer1982

Theres no comparison, KOBE.

Anibal

I am a big Carter fan and if u asked me who i would pick it would be Carter no questions asked. But if u aske me who is better ... Kobe is a million times better than Vince is cmon we are talking about a guy who can put 80 + points for his team to win ... oh yes Kornut im with you 99% in this one (the other 1 is that i would in fact pick Carter ... because i like him, personality shit and stuff but Bryant is by far the better player)

Some1 said stockton was a great player who didnt won any championships... indeed he was one of the greatest (one of my favourite from all time) but i think that if u take the REAL Mailman and put him with kobe ... RIIIIING

Thats what i think anyways ...

Suciniac

That would be me.

Actually they were together along with Payton and got ousted by Detroit in the Championship series.We will never know for sure what Malone and Bryant together would be able to accomplish if they were in the same team in their prime, but I really have a hard time seeing them win a ring together.Kobe absolutely dominated the ball even when a guy like Shaq was there.Shaq is a far better palyer,scorer and defender than the mailman ever was.Besides eventhough the unquestionable talent Malone had he wouldn't be as good or famous if it weren't for Stockton.
People nowadays talk about how amazing Nash is and how suerbly he runs the offence.What they fail to see is how amazing his supporting cast is.He's got shooters on the perimeter and finishers inside.The only thing great I see about Nash is his running of the break.Besides he was no Mvp material before he arrived in Phoenix.Now consider what Stockton did all of his entire carrer with only one real good player and without relying on fast breaks and you will understand his greatness.Stockton is a million times better passer and less unselfish than Bryant can only dream about and hence he was the perfect fit and hope for the mailman to ever win a ring.
The only comparison I can make is the state of affairs in Philly.You have A.I. and C Webb,closest anyone can resemble Malone and Kobe.For a good post player to be effective his wing players and mainly the PG has to find him for easy hoops or else be strong as Shaq to just overpower opponents.If you have a wing player who dominates the ball the effectiveness of even the best big man will be less.

koЯnut

They def did not loose that series because of Kobe or Shaq. If you remember right, Payton and Malone were horrible all year long. And in the playoffs. Really, L.A. getting those two guys was the worst decision made by the Lakers that year. It hurt them more than helped them.





Two completely different players in two completely different roles. Stockton was made to be a passer while Kobe has always and will always be a scorer. Can't really compare a point guard with a shooting guard.

Anibal

lol cmon... "THE MAILMAN" didnt play for the Lakers, that was Malone playing his last minutes and in a desperate effort to win a championship...

Kobe + Shaq = rings... Kobe + Teh Mailman = rings...

shaq is a better defender and a more dominant post player granted. Malone was WAAAY faster running the court and he could shoot the ball from the top of the key, plus he was in fact a dominant player inside the paint.

Nash is an amazing player... he can pass, he can shoot from everywhere, he is fast and he isnt selfish. Sotckton and Nash play different type of basket, Nash plays the game almost too fast, heplayed like that in Dallas and he plays like that in Phoenix. Stockton was an outstanding player and maybe its true he lacked a suporting cast for him to win championships but i think and im sure (although we will never know for sure) that Kobe with The Mailman would have won a ring, Kobe aint the best passing but when he has 3on him and he gives the ball to Odom... imagine that being Malone... better socrer and by far a better passer... Webber is far from being the dominant player he was in Sacramento. That would have been a nice match, AI and Webber when he was at his best.

Suciniac

Actually that was exactly why they lost that series.It was in that series that, things between Shaq and Kobe went really bad.That was the season where Kobe averaged 30 points/game for the first time and was the leading scorer of the team.He was absolutely phenomenal in the playoffs and everyone including Phil Jackson knew it was time that Kobe should be the main focus of the offence.Of course,Shaq wouldn't have it that way.Lakeres didn't have their two main players of the team on the same page and hence Pistons won surprisingly easily.As for Malone, I thought he turned back time a couple of years and really played well for a guy his age.Deep down he knew this was his last shot and closest he will ever get a ring and he played his heart out.Granted he couldn't grasp the full concept of the traingle but he did try his best.Payto, well he never really was the pass first true point guard that Phil Jackson would have liked and only reason the Lakers hired him was because he was a great defender and brought experience to the team.Of course the way Tony Parker lit him up in the Conf. FInals rendered him useless because Derek Fisher was far quicker and a much better shooter.



Agreed.That's my point exactly however Stockton was not made to be a passer, he was a natural.I mean he averaged 5 assists/game in hi ROOKIE season and he was not even the starting PG.The point I want to make is Malone ows a lot of his success to Stockton.The wasy Kobe plays Malone wouldn't have been nearly as successful which of course isn't Kobe's fault.It's just they wouldn't be as nice a fit as Stockton and Malone.

Suciniac

You answered your own question right there.What Kobe needs is good perimeter shooters outside and good finishers inside.Instead of having Malone who is light years away from being a sweet shooter and not the most dominant of dunkers,look at the roster when they won their 3 rings.Kobe had perimeter shooters the caliber of Fox,Horry and Fisher and he had Shaq who could dunk on double teams.Now you look at the current roster,no realiable shooters on the outside and inside you can't compare Mihm and Brown to what Shaq can do eventhough he's 34 yrs now.Now if you were to (just in theory) bring in "THE Mailman" in his prime, to the current roster,would they win the Championship??????Absoulutely not, all Malone would bring to the table is his inside scoring capabilities and possibly the best passing skills a Big man can possess.Their outside shooting woes won't be solved.They still would be short of a Defensive presence in the paint and a solid PG who can run an offence without turning the ball over too much.That's why my freind I will guarantee you with the current roster Lakers will not win the Champioship with or without the Mailman.

Suciniac