Car Enthusiast

ls1s10 i love you

my first car was a 79 camaro with a 305, (for anyone that thinks old cars are always fast has never driven in one of these, the 305 is best used for a boat anchor when there is such an easy alternative: sbc350), still have the car after a minivan ran a red light and i hit it, did some minor things to it, but it was still probably a 14 second car, but i loved that car, put everything in it myself, me and dad redid the motor, i had the car repainted, pretty much i changed everything in the car, R.I.P. the turd

and when you seriously argue the import/domestic thing, it is like saying "hi i am new to the intraweb and this is the first time i have seen this debate"

Andytsi95

With Bolt ones it really isnt stock now is it?

I agree with you for the most part, but there are some motors (like the 4g63) that all you need to do is dump 1000$ into it and it cuts at least 2 seconds of its time. Intake, Exhuast, Boost controller, Plugs, Wires, IC Piping, upgraded BOV and your in the 13's with 250~300 depending on PSI.

Just my .2 cents

PS: thats all without adding more boost into the picture.

LS1-S10

yes i consider a motor with stock internals to be stock. Bolt ons consisting of long tube headers, LS6 intake, home ported and polished tb/MAF, and egr/a.i.r. delete. Total cost so far in bolt ons is 400 bucks for weld up lt header kit, 250 bucks for used LS6 intake, and no cost for tb/maf mods, egr/a.i.r. delete cost me 400 but that was having the codes and other stuff taken out of the computer. So basically, $1050 bucks on this end too :happycow: With the same mods on a LS1 F-body platform, with the exception of the F.R.A. mod which cost is none to minimal, they pull off 12.90's easy. I didnt mention that Futral Motorsports is running 10.90's on a cammed only LS1 camaro did i?

Throw in roughly 3 g's more for a good pare of heads and cam swap...im going with MTI Stage 2r's and a TR-224 cam and basically ill be ripping mid to low 10's on a pump gas grocery getter. Or i could go really extreme and fly cut my pistons to run a T-Rex cam and see roughly 500-510 at the rear wheels. Total project is costing me a splurged 12 g's which isnt awfully bad for a 10 second capable daily driver that can handle twisty's as well as straight's.

BTW did i mention that a complete LS1 motor weighs slightly less than a complete production 4.3L GM V6?

LS1-S10

Oh yeah, i appreciate it Car Enthusiast and BZG. Dont find too many nice 79's do ya?

endless

I prefer Imports to Domestics because of the amount of technology in Import motors. Import cars can make up 120hp per liter of all motor power. That would be equal to a 350 making 684hp all motor on pump gas.

LS1-S10

And how is this any different than getting up to 640 horse power out of a NATURALLY ASPIRATED LS1 on pump gas,which is actually 347 cubic inches?
Ive also talked to some guys running pump gas and twin turboed LS1 running around 1200 hp on about 14 lbs of boost. 2 hp per liter and not even at full potential....it goes on and on.

Basically the battle will always come down to displacement. What ever you do to a 4 cylinder will work even greater on a V8. 4 bangers don't and never will have shit for torque basically because displacement makes torque. The longer you throw that rod, the more low end grunt your going to have. I really dont even see a leg to stand on arguing import vs. domestic performance unless you compare 4 bangers to 4 bangers and V8's to V8's.

Its truly stupid to say, well my turbo V6 outran your stock V8. Slap a turbo on the V8 and it sucks the paint off the V6. There is NO argument. I dont see how people try to say that Japanese technology is superior to American technology....we all share the same friggin technology. GM has overhead cam V8's, but there expensive and there actual gains are marginal to the expense and performance of the old pushrod cam in block design.Im pretty sure some of you have heard of the Vette's LT5 on the C4 platform and the more famous Northstar from Caddilac.

GM has been producing the pushrod V8 since 1955, i believe if it was felt to be inferior...it would have been killed a LONG time ago. I dont have the first problem with imports, ive actully driven a WRX coupe before and i can say it was a VERY fun car to drive. Would i have modified to for more performance? Probably not. I believe in taking light weight cars/trucks and sticking the narliest motor i can create in it. I really dont see having 8.125 lbs per hp as being sluggish for a stock engine. And yes i calculated that on stock bhp on the LS1 before ANY mods and the finished weight of my truck.

I will agree however, that import companies are on the leading edge of pollution control in vehicles. So next time im camming off at a red light and my eyes tear up from unburnt hydrocarbons coming from my 600+ hp blown small block, i'll be sure to think about how inferior my car is to a pollution friendly Honda.

Andytsi95

All I gotta say that There is a replacement for displacement... That comes in the form of a snail like object we are all familiar with.

LS1, you have to give respect to some of the drag cars in the circut now that are running those hondas N/A in the 10's.

LS1-S10

Never said i didnt have respect for a "fast" car. But for street respect i wanna see a street driven n/a 10 second honda :happycow:

How can it be a replacement for displacement? Once again, how can you compare a boosted car to a n/a car? By justifying it has 4 less cylinders? It all comes down to displacement in the end....end of story. You put headers on a 4 banger and headers on a V8, the V8 see's the larger gain. It happens like that all across the board.

Arguing technology doesnt change this at all. I never said that imports or slow or some stupid ass generalization like that. Some of them can be quite quick if you have a actual mechanically inclined individual working on them. The problem is that most of the jackasses on the street today think they have a stock mustang with a flowmaster and its just the fastest shit around. So when a guy thats done some tweaking on a 4 banger car and added a turbo and such and eats the dudes ass. Then other people get the generalization that domestic V8's are just slow as shit.Have the same car pull up next to that same mustang after the mustang has been fitted with a intercooled ATI procharger pushing about 14 lbs and his ass gets left like yesterdays lunch.

I think my favorite idiot i ever had the pleasure of whooping up on was some 16 y/o punk in a yellow 300Z. I was sitting at a redlight in my 79Z and him and his buddy pulled up next to me and revved. So i kinda grinned and i asked them if he wanted to run or something, he kinda laughed and said i guess so. Then i turned my head and i overheard his passenger say, dont worry man....camaro's are sooooo slow. I looked back over and i said.....uh what did you just say. He repeated, so inturn i revved up to about 8K and asked him if he wanted to say it again. They both kinda looked nervous and i was going to wait for them to leave first at the light so i could play catch up. Well they just sat there when it turned green and slowly took off. So i glady paced them and kept it in third at about 50, turning about 4500 r's. I looked over and about the same time he downshifted so i floored it and got completely sideways at 50. Even spinning the tires i jumped roughly a car on him, needless to say it ended right there because he promplty got back out of it. At the next redlight i politely told him what happens when you make dumbass generalizations....you get your ass handed to you. So yeah, i got respect for ANYTHING until i see it run.

Really i wish there was more fast imports on the streets than the bullshit cars we have rolling around here. I hardly ever get my 79 out anymore because there really isnt anything worth running in this town besides a fox-body Mustang that's out every once in a while thats running a 346 stroker with a 6-71 and he deffinitely handed me my ass until he ran out of motor and i caught him at about 140. But if a import ever ran with me all the way until i got out of it or even beat me, then yeah i would deffinitely shake his hand and want to know whats up with what he did. I like cars period, but for performance...i prefer displacement.

Big_Al

I've always been partial to domestics. I've owned a '94 GMC 3/4 ton, '96 Jeep Cherokee, and now I'm on a '93 Typhoon. I've never lost to an import in a race in my ty, and I haven't just raced Honda's with coffee can exhausts either. I really think Chrysler has made a hell of a car with the new 300C...340hp and it looks like a bentley. I just can't wait until they introduce the SRT-8 (Dodge magnum wagon w/ supercharged hemi!!)

jeephog

I have to agree the SRT-8 is gonna rock!! Nothing like a wagon, from the US, kicking so much tail.

GT40MkI

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Eh...

As an owner of a import and a domestic "race" car....I must say I'm torn.

The Mustang-an 88 for those of you keepin track, has had just about every possible poweradder combination (Blowers, Twin turbos, Nitrous, any combination of the 3) as well as most of the cyl head/intake/cam combinations widely available on the aftermarket. In its last run as a "street" car (A/c, power everything, 5-speed, driveable wherever and would still get 12-16mpg cruising, hit 20mpg on the highway) it went 10.38@138 in the 1/4. Small block, centrifugal vortech blower (16psi), and mild heads and cam.

Then it became a race car, full fuel system, fuel cell, c4 manual valvebody auto, 12point cage with all the goodies to get an 8.50 certification on the chassis, lose the a/c-heater box, etc. Biggest mistake ever, as it went on to run 9.9x a few times with a vortech t-trim and lastly (about a year or so ago) a 9.7x@132 on a 6.10 1/8mile...1.34 60 foot....fun, but a pain in the ass when I wanted to cruise it, I really regret taking that step. Currently I'm redoing the fuel cell mounting and fuel system stuff, and working on sticking a 91mm turbo under the hood, should be interesting


About a year ago I picked up a 1990 AWD Eagle Talon and have been tinkering with it ever since, plans were originally to build a streetracing machine, but laws passed back in september put the nails in that coffin. Car is still under construction and is my daily driver to and from work...when all the bugs work out it should run with the old mustang setup...but keep the a/c and creature comforts...and awd launches will own on the street .

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GT40Krylon: 140 ain't shit.

madforit73

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As someone who has lived on both sides of the fence (US & Europe ), I'd still take an Evo/Impreza over any 2wd sports car as a daily driver. Domestic to me now = English - i.e. TVR - now there are some serious motors!

However, there's nothing like spinning all four wheels when you dump the clutch at a light.

I've driven my both an Impreza and a Viper on track and the roar of a large displacement engine when you're going flat out is incredible, but if there's any rain or god forbid, snow, you are so screwed with all that power going to just 2 wheels!

GT40MkI

Nice motors...but I believe the Chimaera uses a N/A version of the Ford Cobra's DOHC 4.6 V8...most of the others are inline 6's with 4 valves/cyl...







Except of course when you keep breaking trannies and transfer cases :(

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GT40Krylon: 140 ain't shit.

7ommy

It's not fair to group "American" cars against "everyone else". Most car manufacturers are truely global. Quality no matter where it's made or where the company is headquartered is the most important feature. My general rule of thumb is don't buy your car from the same company that makes your microwave...