CD

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http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS...g.ap/index.html

Strike 2,167 for the environment since Bush got in office. All the damage he is/will be causing the environment is getting humorous now. I mean seriously, does he really think this is going to bring about any positive changes? First of all, we won't see any of that oil for at least his presidency. Second, I bet Alaska will experience at least 2 major oil spills in the first 4 years of oil pumping. Already had a large spill in December 2004... just a matter of time for the next few.

President Bush, I salute you. You sir are a truely shitty President.

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Sagaris

Credit where credit is due he's cleared the snow off Kilamanjaro

jf

some will argue that drillin in ANWR and the fields and pipelines actual are good for caribou herds that increase in numbers around the pipelines. but i think thats about on the same level as the areas where logging is such a way of life for animals that the whitetail deer populations are so extremely attracted to the sounds of chainsaws that they will watch and wait for workers to leave so that they can eat the easy browse. tough call i say but nature always knows best.


*edit* wait... thats not a tough call at all...

Jimmy_the_Hand

i know that i'm going to get reamed for this, but when will you people wake up!? right now we import roughly 50% of the oil that we consume in the us. it's been estimated (don't ask where, i can't remember) that within the next 15 or so years, we will be importing cloes to 75% of the oil we consume in this country. how secure do you think we will be when places like iran, saudi arabia, and south america have us around the gonads with our oil supply? we need to find our own sources of energy, granted oil is the least desireable, but until something better comes along, that's all we've go. ANWR is a HUGE preserve and the area that is designated for oil exploration is a small percentage of that.

CD

My suggestion would be make long term arrangements with the middle east. These short term gain arrangements have FUCKED us! Case in point, Sadam Hussein's was given his power because we had a problem with another country. This picking sides based on who we "like" at the moment will never work. But if we have long term plans and can work towards those plans we don't have to worry about our dependency as much.
How about this... those countries have certain religious beliefs that do not match our own. They live differently and believe differently then us. As much as I'd like for every country to be "free", that just will never happen. And forcing it to happen is a lot like trying to tame a bunch of lions from INSIDE the cage.

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joerockhead

My opinon is that we force the Automotive companies to raise MPG! Congress shot that down the last several years!!!
We should NOT drill in Alaska, but research alternative fuels for Everything! We are just going to destroy the envirnoment with out polluting vehicles if we keep this up.

I am a car guy, but I feel our Government is bending the wrong way on this.
It is not all Bush's fault, Congress has a lot to do with this as well.

Both suck on the Envirnonent!! :-(

jf

yeah that's a lot of money that could go to some other form of research like electric cells. (still consume fossil fuels i know) and hydrogen won;t happen. i can get the facts but i probably won;t but i bet we will never see hydrogen fuel cells on cars except as a sort of novelty or in concepts. never major production. i don't know where i would like to see that money go. not into ANWR though. i need more thought. i'm in a frazzled state of mind right now. i need my +1 thinking cap.




why will we be less secure? because as soon as we buy all our oil from them they will blow us up? or they will support terrorist organizations that blow us up? we're not going to get blown up. i think you need to wake up. chances of dying in 2001 from terrorism was like 1/100,000. you're chance of commiting suicide was like 1/9000. how many people died on american soil from foreign terrorists in 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004? let me do the math here... whats 0+0? oh yeah its none.
(i asked my dog what 0+0 was and he said nothing!)

RB76

This is one of those topics where people make up their mind without knowing the facts. Environmental lobbyists are foaming at the mouth, because after all, it's the environment, stupid. However, the environmental lobby has a habit of opposing any proposal that might have an environmental impact, that might encroach upon existing resources allocated to ecological preservation, that might unnaturally accelerate the expansion or contraction of a population of an organism. If it will exist within the environment (and I mean that in the global sense), they're against it.

Proponents of the idea point to the thought "it's the economy, stupid." Increasing our self-reliance for oil production might reduce our dependency on foreign oil, tapping into and utilizing the resources that we already own might provide more jobs for the US economy, tapping into the oil bed in ANWR might yield twice the oil than they expect.

What the environmentalist don't tell you is that the drilling and equipment can only be in place during the winter because it is built on the winter ice. What the proponents don't tell you is that no matter the advances in technology, accidents still happen.

Of all of the facts and figures I've heard, I tend to favor the proponents for the following reason: we cannot justify purchasing our oil from foreign markets and bolster their economies when the US econmy can be improved by accessing resouces that we already own.

I encourage everyone to look up the facts:

Take a look at:
ANWR.com
CDFE (Map of ANWR)
Environmental Media Services
US House Committee on Resources

RB76

CD

joerockhead said it with the MPG. Because the car companies have shown that it is fairly easy to build cars that get wonderful MPG. However, with so many in the Government under the pocket of big-oil, it's no wonder they choose drill for more instead of the more logical, use it more wisely.

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BigTruck

We MUST decrease our dependency on foriegn oil! That is a fact and drilling on US soil is the only way to do that. We have such tremendous untapped resources here at home that its ridiculus not to use them. Alternative energy sources are great and definatley must be explored and we must continue to develope them, but until they are able to do the same performance wise as petrol based engines, the majority of the US public will not accept them as a true alternative. I mean, unless I can get a hydrogen or electric or whatever powered vehicle to equal the power of a V8, I definately am not trading in my truck. Just aint happenin.

I thin kthsat the first true uses (besides the hybrids like honda and toyota) will be in public transportation. Either in city bus systems or in taxi's or things like that. Would be a good place to refine the technology for the general public

kholmes

The Gov will never do anything about decreasing dependency on oil because it lines the pockets of the oil execs. There so many alternate energy sources that are already out there , but the oil companies would spend any amount of money and do anything to prevent this technology to be implemented into the mainstream. I actually have a ford ranger with a v6 engine that runs on gas or ethanol (E85) or any combination of the two. NO LOSS TO PERFORMANCE. Ford released 200,000 taurus and rangers from 98-01 that have flex fuel engines (if you ever see a ranger with a green leaf above the emblem on the tailgate, then its ethanol) Corn is the most common plant used to make ethanol which could easily be grown here (ask Tom Daschle, or anyone in SD) This would let the farmers profit and ethanol actually burns cleaner and faster (more oxygen) You actually get a little less mpg because its pure alcohol and it burns faster. Also biodeisel is a great alternate to deisel with no loss to performance or power. I have a buddy who runs some tractors on it. Imagine a hybrid electric ethanol car/truck with efficient mpg (45-55 would be great). The Pres and Congress should pass a bill requiring all cars/trucks to built to run on ethanol as well. Technically, all cars can run on ethanol, all you have to do is replace the oxygen sensor to allow for the increase in oxygen from the alcohol. Alcohol can corrode the fuel lines and tanks in time tho.

I know there could also be other forms of alt energy but I think we should implement what we have now and get it better later. Hybrids are a good idea because they use multiple sources of energy. A car that runs on ethanol, gas, and electricity would give you great flexibility and still use gas until eth is more accepted. Just an idea.

Sagaris

What's reqd is to inform everybody out there of the viable alternatives whether it be Biofuel ( used frying oil ), Gas or Hydrogen cells. Most people haven't a clue, unlike my learned friends here at Ratty Webbers .
Start with local services showing the way and financially reward those caring for our world. Appeal to their greed / conscience ,whatever.

Wayne Brady

Drilling in ANWR at this point is asinine. We shouldn't be looking to feed the monkey, but get the monkey completely of our backs. Like Sagaris said, there are alternative energy source. Many of them are renewable. Drilling at ANWR only puts money into the pockets of a few. It won't lower the price of gas one cent. The current jump in gas prices are because the world demand is so great. All the oil producing nation(not just OPEC, but the US, Russia, Mexico, South American and African nations) are at full production capacity to meet the demand. ANWR would be a drop in the bucket. The problem is the 3 largest oil consuming nations. The US and Japan are coming out of recessions (Japan has been in economic stagnation for 10 years), and China is entering the world economy by becoming more industrialize. 1.1 billion Chinese are coming online in the world oil market. It's only going to get worse. The Bush Administration doesn't have the vision to lead us in a different direction. Give you an example: 6 major US car manufacturers produced hybrid cars before 2000. None (A big fat fuckin' ZERO) have produced hybrids between 2000 and 2004. The only one available today is the Ford Escape... and it's a friggin' SUV. Go figure!

speigs

The drilling is a good idea that we should have started back in the seventies if not for all the lefties in the House and Senate, that conform to activist groups that were gaining power and sympathy from mainstream America. It will help the economy and will expand jobs for Americans and American companies. We will be less dependant on Mid-East countries and we won't have to play flavor of the month allies like we had to do with Saddam in the eighties. The first hybrid vehicle was not introduced on the available market until 1999. Since then, the Honda Civic, Toyota Primus, Honda Insight, along with two GMC and Chevy pick-ups have all come out over the past five years. Real soon,which means being modeled and in production right now, you can get a Honda Accord and a Toyota Camry in hybrid models, along with Lexus, Saturn, Chevrolet, and numerous SUV's. And while you are saving the envirement,which is not as bad as claimed, your killing your wallet on maintnance. To put a new battery in one of these things will cost btwn 1500-2000 dollars. So you can't put the manufactoring of hybrid cars on the Presidents lap when he has know hand in the saying. I am hearing left-wing rhetoric and enviromentalist lunacy on the subject.