Juan.©amaney

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Novensu

IF we would spend half of our resources researching alternative fuel sources, instead of finding new places to drill for oil, we would not need to screw up the environment or rely on other countries to satiate our need for oil.

Wayne Brady

This issue isn't left/right issue or anti-Bush thing. Teddy Roosevelt and Barry Goldwater were staunch conservatives, but also conservationist. The GOP's conservative movement was born of conservationist values. Sometimes these politicians forget what there parties are about and follow the money.

Yes you can put this in the Presidents lap because he leads from a bully pulpit. Not everything he accomplishes is through legislation. JFK said we would go to the moon before 1970. Reagan's unending optimism healed our nation after the Iranian hostage situation and lead us though deep recession. No US car manufactures have made any significant gains on MPG, hybrids, or other alternatives because the Bush Administration hasn't pushed the issue. We can put a man on the moon, but we can't make a hybrid during Bush's first term. By the way, speigs, all the cars you mentioned are japanese and the US vehicle's are only proposed to be available sometime this year. It not the point that hybrids aren't the answer today(especially because of the high maintennace cost), but we have a viable alternative tommorrow. That's vision. If we would have started investing serious capital in 1973 during the Oil Embargo instead of just finding new places to drill for oil, we might have already got the oil monkey off our backs.

Justin, there is a huge difference between ANWR and your backyard. ANWR is above the Artic Circle. Equipment acts much different in constant Artic cold. But we can invest tens of millions in research to try and fix any of the problems. Why not invest it in finding alternative energy sources? ANWR is just a drop in the bucket and won't solve our dependency on foreign oil. Geology dictates that finding new oil fields is a losing battle. The Arabs sit atop the world's largest oil field.

speigs

It is a partisan thing. Vote was 51-49. And almost everything that the President has brought to the table has been that close. Dems are pissed about all three elections and cannot stand having little say in which legislation gets passed.The reason he leads from a so-called bully pulpit is because most of his legislation gets passed because we have the House and the Senate. The Federal Gov't does not have the power to walk into General Motors and start demanding that they start making hybrids during his office. They do not have the power to impede on private buisness. Everyone would be hissy fitting claiming intrusion of gov't. The car manufactures have been making and testing hybrids, and are trying to bring down cost of manufacturing and maintnence. It takes time to work these things out. Look at how long they worked on the Stealth Bomber before it was brought into public eye. And yes, they are all foreign cars, but half the cars driven on U.S. are foreign. American car companies have been playing catch up for the past 40 years when it comes to automobiles.

CD

But incentives to make more fuel efficienct cars IS something the government can do. And just like Wayne Brady said, that takes vision for the future. Taking the present as the only time that matters has never worked in the past and will never work in the future.

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speigs

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So, it is up to the gov't to reward these manufactoring companies for doing the research that they should already be doing. No, come up with some practical ideas, something that is going to reduce pollution and oil dependency, and then you shall be rewarded. You get rewarded when you accomplish, not try. But until then, the gov't is doing what it can do in it's power, which is to start drilling elsewhere to have the sufficient goods we need to be self-reliant.

If we cannot get past the present, there is no future.

speigs

I know I'm on the wrong thread,but beautiful pics.

jf

I'd like to point out that there is a lot the government can make manufacturers do. there is essentially no difference between a democracy and a communism when it comes to that, the gov. can push you around but instead of government contracted killings and rape vans(not that those things are inherently communistic but they just happen to be commonly assiciated with our stereotypical communist society) democracies use tax cuts, deductibles, and credits. think about it. the government wants you to buy a house, not rent therefore it is tax deductible. etc. etc. make up your own examples.
really, claiming that there's nothing our government can do about a DEFINATELY government controlled problem is ludicrous.

Car Enthusiast

everyone does know that alternative fuel cars do not get that much better then economy 4 cylindar cars. GM has been working on alternative fuel cars for a while, and yes they are not ready yet, but the foreign alternative fuel cars came out before a lied to everyone about the mpg range saying 70 on the freeway, when it was a lot less. And I can't believe someone said that there have been no advancements in gas powered cars. The new z06 corvette is rumored to have 30 mpg while boasting 500 hp. Diesels are soooooooooooooooooooooo much cleaner and effecient than they were. And those motors are made here in america last time i heard. And the US does not produce enough grains to support a bio powered car. And another issue is you have to completely revamp the fueling system we use now which would take forever and billions of dollars maybe more that we will have to pay. The alternative fuel source vehicle's aren't ready yet to power our world, it is around the corner, but it is not here yet.

And seriously if you are putting this on bush you are way to into the anti bush movement. This is an issue that spans decades and different administrations this isn't something that has just become apparent recently. Alternative fuel cars have been around forever. Gas dependency issues has been around probably before most of us were born.

CD

If the government wants change to occur, one of the easiest ways is to give incentives to companies trying to accomplish that. The government was fully behind sending a man to the moon... but fuck NASA! Let those bastards get it done on their own!... ummm no! Government wants to raise the value of the dollar? Put less money into the economy daily. Or what about wanting more homeowners? Lower the interest rate for houses. Simple stuff to do that doesn't affect companies that don't want to move forward. But for those companies that do, it must be nice knowing that the government approves and will help. I mean Alaskan oil will be ready to flow in how many years?? Wouldn't it be nice to have that oil available at a time when many more fuel efficient cars are on the road? Just think, we would pump less oil from the great white north AND reduce dependency on that dreaded Middle Eastern oil!

(if ^^^ doesn't flow smoothly I'm sorry... I'm deathly tired.)

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joerockhead

Well, I am not an ANTI Bush person, I voted vof and support him in many areas. Ex cept environment. I do not see a need to spend the next 10 years building the infrastructure to drill nad move the oil. The idea's are a Big ass road or a Pipe line.
Both will be exspensive and both will cause damage to the area.

As for the Z06 getting 30MPG. That would be a Highway rating, and it might get that. MIGHT. City MPG is more like 15.

The Congresss is as much to blame, yes the Republicans own both the house nad the Senate, and yet none of theose guys has the balls to standup and say NO! either becasue they are afraid, or they are in a POCKET!

lastexit

He's exactly right about MPG. Why? Because (at 1998 consumption rates) the world will be out of oil in 50 years. Yes, in 50 years there will not be any gas to fuel the cars we drive or the trucks that transport the groceries and everything else that we buy (http://geopubs.wr.usgs.gov/open-fil...20/of00-320.pdf). Geologists are not finding new sources of oil like they have done in the past. From 1995-2000, geologists discovered an average of 3 billion barrels of oil per year, while the world consumed 27 billion barrels per year. A great way to cut back consumption is to conserve.

There needs to be a HUGE investment in the research and development of an alternative energy source or we're fucked. And with industrialized asia demanding so much more oil, that 50 year estimate is going to drop. It's mind-boggling how ignorant people are of the fact that we'll have no oil left during our lifetime. And the little amount that will remain in 2050 will cost a fortune because of the enormous demand and miniscule supply. I talked to a semi driver at work who filled their tank for $500. The price won't ever get cheaper.

It's good that we're drilling in Alaska because we're going to need every last drop of "black gold" we can suck out of the earth. But the oil under Alaska is a drop in the bucket in comparason with the world's consumption. If the US depended strictly on Alaska oil, we'd be dry in about year and a half. I can only imagine the type of wars we'll be fighting to protect the precious oil remaining in the Persian Gulf, where the world's biggest fields exist.

People are beginning to regret buying those gas-guzzler v8 as daily drivers because of the shitty gas mileage and escalating gas prices. But they're part of the reason gas prices are so high. The more HEMIs and hummers we buy the more gas is going to cost. I realize that we'll be forced to buy fuel-efficient cars or go broke in a few years but the sooner we are forced to buy them, the longer we could milk the oil supply. People say that the 70s oil crisis was bad and that gas was basically unavailable. If the US oil crisis was bad, what will the world oil crisis be? We need to start conserving oil.

Check out this great link for the facts http://geopubs.wr.usgs.gov/open-fil...20/of00-320.pdf.

CD

BRAVO! Exactly what I wanted to hear!

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Wayne Brady

lastexit, thank you very fuckin' much :rock: