Originally Posted by Jimi

...I think you're living in a fantasy world. Saddam never tried to "antagonize" us....

As far as the intelligence... I'd suspect that someone had better be damn right before starting a war. Had anyone else started a war that was unjustified, the US would be all over them about it. When we do it.... it's ok.

Originally Posted by Jimi

I have a friend in Mosul, and she was just involved in a suicide bombing. She says it's pretty nasty at times. I guess your friend's just lucky.

Originally Posted by Jimi

I think you're living in a fantasy world. Saddam never tried to "antagonize" us. I think you've read one too many war stories. What little bombs did Clinton send to Iraq? I remember him throwing missiles at Al Queda training facilities in Afghanistan, is that what you're talking about?

Originally Posted by psychobilly

There are some things we do know though and cant be denied. Such as "oil for aid" and "I'm a war president...I make decisions with war in mind". With that we have found a man that had a nations wealth and an army to keep him hidden. Weve left a man free who has a small following and limited money. This was done under the mask of a nation simply ensuring its safety...now then why is the man [Osama] who attacked us and plans to attack again with chemical or other deadly weapons the one to run free? More people were guarding the oil fields in Iraq than we had looking for the truly guilty. Do you think we had trouble building a coalition because we had good reason to invade? I dont think so. If there was a hint of a reason we would of had the world on our coat tails. I am proud to be one of the people who will voice a distrust in this administration simply to keep the checks and balances. Without checks and balances we have no freedom, look at what happen in the Ukraine. The government thought and expected the population to sit back and not question their last election....much like we dont as a nation want to question the bush administrations motives. Well Ukraine's election was stolen, it was expected people would just think it wouldnt happen. The Ukraine government felt that since the people had trust in them and trust that things would be right that was a good reason to betray. These people were brave and did not just sit and let the powers that be take away their democracy. Checks and balances. Another thing we know as unquestioned fact is that this administration is behind the patriot act. If it was an earlier time in history our nation would be in a revolution over such infringement of civil liberties. Were sitting here and letting this happen...we lack checks and balances, we lack knowledge and most of all we lack a desire to change.

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Originally Posted by psychobilly

Here's what it comes down to. If they had WMD they would have used them, pure and simple. If they had them and chose not to use them even in this extreme situation then they were never a threat anyway, either way its an unjust war. The UN sanctions were working, the UN knew it too or it would have been a UN coalition.

Originally Posted by psychobilly

Now tthink about the patriot II it goes into a lot more detail. If this is passed we can all bee subject to giving up DNA for a nationwide data base....ummm how many planes were flown into the ground or buildings on 9/11 by Americans???

Originally Posted by juan.camaney

Are you fucking serious? Never antagonized us?

So by your reasoning we should wait until we get stuff like 9-11 before we declare war? We just sit there casually waiting until we get a bunch of people killed before we do anything about it.

I do agree that there are bigger threats than Iraq and the US does nothing about it for some reason. I also know there are TONS of shit the public (yes, Jimi, you and I) aren't informed about and is classified so I'm sure there is a perfectly good explanation for it.

Jimi, I feel bad for you. You live in a country that allows you to complain about it, yet do nothing to try and correct the situation. You almost tend to side with countries that the US is at war against. If you lived in any of those countries, you would have been killed by now. You have no idea how easy you have living in this country...I sure wish you wouldn't criticize it and its leaders so much. Be greatful for what you have.

If you are bitter because so many of our people are being killed, just remember that they enlisted, they weren't drafted. Your sister who just got shipped out took the risk of enlisting, probably for the benefits and money for school. She took an oath, and pledged to protect this country and knows there is a chance she might never come back. She's fighting for your right to be a whiney little bitch...stop and think shit through some day and you will realize maybe we DO have to be the tough guys in order for us to remain the super power we are.

Originally Posted by thepipebomb

I don’t know how anyone can say that Iraq didn’t have WMDs. Just because we didn’t find any, doesn’t mean they didn’t have them. We KNOW they had them, b/c Saddam used them against his own people. This is fact. Unless Saddam used his last drops of chemical weapons when he gassed his own people, there were some floating around that country. Iraq has plenty of time to move any WMDs out of the country while he was busy violating UN sanctions and not allowing inspectors into the country.

In fact there is strong evidence that the Russians helped get some several hundred tons of explosives out of Iraq. Below is a link to an article that says:
“After Mr. Shaw's disclosures, the Pentagon released spy satellite photographs of Iraqi weapons facilities that showed truck convoys at the plants, apparently in preparation to move materials. Further corroborating Mr. Shaw's account, a Russian newspaper reported that two retired Russian generals had received awards from Saddam's government 10 days before the coalition assault on Iraq began.”
http://washingtontimes.com/national...13041-1647r.htm
(I couldn’t find the original Wash Post article that wrote about this, only one talking about the guy who blew the whistle getting canned.)

We already know that Russia, France and (I believe) Germany sold prohibited items to the Iraqis during the UN sanctions. Funny how they were the three biggest opponents to the invasion.

Is it that hard to believe that Iraq could have help getting WMDs across the border to Seria or other countries? Saddam wasn’t a Sunday School teacher guys. He killed his own people, attacked our allies, used WMDs in the past, violated UN sanctions time and time again, stole from the oil for food program and the list goes on.


All that being said: We shit the bed with our intelligence. However I feel the invasion was justified and the right thing to do at the time.

Originally Posted by thepipebomb

No Americas flew planes into buildings? So what would you have us do then? Only pull aside or put under scrutiny people who look middle eastern or those of Muslim faith? That sounds a lot like racial profiling to me … isn’t that a violation of our civil rights as well?

My point is: People want to be kept safe and secure. If anything happens it’s the government’s fault for not doing enough. HOWEVER, just don’t let that safety and security raise my taxes, infringe on my travel, invade my privacy or generally interfere with my life in any way what so ever.