Jimi

I don't believe that any particular writings pointed at any particular sect as being a "cult". At the time, there were many sub-sects... and pointing fingers and calling one more cultish didn't really happen. All the Romans knew was that Christianity wasn't Roman mythology teachings, and that this man was walking around basically having people break Roman rules, who had control at the time.

Jimi

To some extent, however, I could see how particular sects of Christianity could be considered a cult, such as Jehovah's Witness, Mormonism, and even Catholocism.

Christianity as a whole, though, cannot be considered a cult just because it is a religion.

Insaniteus

*thud*

1: Christianity has murdered about 1000 times more people than all of the world's "cults" combined. The genocide of the Native Americans alone, complete with biological warfare, should say that. I'd classify genocidal intent as pretty extreme, myself.
2: I didn't see the Branch Davidians trying to say "God wants our laws to be this way" as a reason for legal reform, so I'd call the motives of Christianity as far more radical than most cults who just want to be left alone.
3: Bush used Christianity to manipulate people into a military war effort. Others have as well since the Crusades all through modern history and Hitler. Islam is doing a pretty damn good job of forming militias in the Middle East to boot.
4: Cults live on a compound...yeah, that's an intelligent comment .

Jimi, Jesus and the Apostles had so much in common with modern cults, it's frightening. Think about it: They were small, were ordered to leave their past lives totally behind them to follow, were led by a charismatic man who claimed to know the true intent of God contrary to the established, etc.

The only, ONLY difference between a religion and a cult is the connotation of the word given by the majorities, meaning only small shits get the bad label and not the big groups.

PS: Rome didn't care if their followers follwed the Roman religion, but Jews and Christians openly insulted the Emperor by refusing to worship him as well, as was required by Roman law. THAT is why they were beatup so much.

PPS: The Jews and Romans always considered Christianity to be nothing more than a radical cult. If it hadn't been for an Emperor of Rome converting to Christianity and ordering all Romans to convert or die, Christianity today would be smaller than Judaism.

-Insaniteus-

Jimi

I said.... "Cults generally live on a compound", and generally... they do. Insaniteus, I find your hatred for religion and your non-acceptance that people believe other than yourself rather annoying. You're completely one-sided on the issue, and quite frankly, rather ignorant on it. What roman Emperor is it that converted and as such had his followers convert?

What is it, exactly, that you think makes you versed enough in religion, besides your anti-religion, to jump to such absurd conclusion? So you live in the Bible Belt, that means nothing. Sure, you live around fanatical Christians, but you are generalizing WAY too much in all aspects of religion, and you have no right to do so. You're being more of a hypocrite than any of the Christians I know.

Wayne Brady

I believe his name was Constantine(like the obviously blasphemous movie).

Jimi

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Constantine used religion politically, much as Bush is doing now. There is a difference between using religion, and actually believing in it.

Wayne Brady

Woah, dude! Don't make this a Bush Bashing forum.
You put way too much weight on the global presence of Jesus during his lifetime. He only travelled in a 30-40 mile area of Judea in his lifetime. Outside of that, he was scarcely known. By comparison Muhammad made a far greater impact during his lifetime. The Romans didn't give a damn about Jesus and his small sect of followers, they only killed him at the behest of the Jewish leaders who guaranteed no Jewish revolts if they got rid of their radical upstart( now that's polictics for your ass). Before Christians were called Christians they were considered a radical Jewish cult who criticize the Jewish leaders and railed against many of the Jewish teachings.
Some of the people you lump into cults like snake handlers are just normal folks. Their are quite a few of these people here in the Appalachians. Who are we to judge how people get their freak on for Jesus? That's the attitude that brought Puritans to this continent anyway.
Why would Constantine make such world changing decision just for politics? That's like saying Lincoln didn't really believe in abolishing slavery, he just wanted to score points with the eletorate.
Don't get me wrong Jimi, I consider myself a Christian, but I also know that part of the Christian lore is built on being the underdog and humility. Just like many of these cults(especially Christian cults) today.

Insaniteus

Jimi, the LEAST you could do is try to disprove me, rather than just unilaterally declare that I'm wrong and that's that . I think what you hate about me so much is that you're afraid that I'm right and you're in denial.

Also, as I've said, I don't hate religion, I just wish you religious fucks would keep it in your churches instead of trying to pass laws, jihads, and judgements making life harder on everyone who dares to not worship your grand diety. What qualifies me to talk about them in depth is the fact that I've studied world religions in great depth, esspecially Christianity and Islam, often trying to understand how exactly people are able to gamble their lives and souls on any of them.

PS: The Emperor was Constantine at around 300 AD. Try to study some history of your own religion please.... What did you THINK caused Christianity to dominate most of Europe from about 300 on, dumb luck?

Hell, I checked the web some for exact text on the subject of Constantine's conversion of the Empire:



Constantine's tyranny is the only reason your religion gained ANY real power. He really should be made a saint.

-Insaniteus-

Jimi

Really? Jeruselum to Rome is 40 miles? The Romans HATED that Jesus had any followers. the Jews sold him out. this isn't just Biblical, this is historical. Whether he was, or was not the son of God, this happened.

I'm not turning this into a Bush bashing thing.

Snake handlers are FAR from normal folks.

Jimi

No, I'm neither trying to prove, nor disprove anything, except that you're clumping an entire people together simply because they believe in a God. So what if you don't? As far as anyone knows, you're no more right than anyone else. Why would I hate that you were right? What I hate is that you are trying to debate something that you only have absent-minded conclusions on, and it's something that you're obviously not educated on. you are making accusations and assumption based on.... well... nothing.

As much as you wish "religious fuck ups" would keep their shit to themselves... you're certainly voicing your opinion a hell of a lot. If you're going to tell soemone to shut the fuck up about what they believe.... then shut the fuck up about what you believe.

Jimi

I do study my own religion, and the religion of others. All religion strongly interests me. Before telling ME to study MY OWN religion, maybe YOU should study SOME of my religion.

Insaniteus

Sheesh, I feel like I'm debating W over here! Now I know how John Kerry felt....

I don't WANT religious people to shut up, as clearly stated by me asking you to actually talk lol. I said I wanted ya'll to stop oppressing the rest of us, with laws, crusades, etc. I happen to ENJOY debating, and I thought you did too but you're taking this all WAY too personally, damn. Hell, this thread was just us enlightened ones attempting to explain to the close-minded (that'd be you) that there is no real difference between an average cultist and a Jesus or Allah lover. The worst autrosity that a cult ever does is usually forced suicides. World religions, however, usually aim higher, more in the genocidish region. Same mentality, bigger guns.

PS: You didn't even knw about Constantine converting the Empire. That's one of the BASICS of your religion. Clearly the only studying you've done is the Bible itself, so don't complain when I bring things we call facts to the table.

-Insaniteus-

Jimi

How the fuck am I oppressing anyone? You're the one bashing people simply for being Christian.

And...

you DO want them to shut the fuck up. Me close-minded? You're over generalizing people because they believe in something.

And, you called me a religious fuck simply because I am Christian. I've not once tried to convert anyone, and I'm definitely not trying to convert you.... so why am I now a "religious fuck"? Because I believe in God? Take your unwanted, hypocritical insults elsewhere.

Jimi

This is not one of the "basics" of my religion. It's not mentioned in the Bible. And even if it was... I am a mixture of particular beliefs. If, by my religion, you mean Catholic, you're way off. I'm not Catholic. I know about Constantine, but I also know that a lot of people have used religion to gain power. Just because someone in history HAS used religion, doesn't mean that everyone who believes in something wants to manipulate others to feel this way. Insane.... stop being so... insane. You're clueless. You have no valid arguments, because you really don' know shit about the religion... do you?