Originally Posted by Lorill

Ha. I know that Liberals are quick blame anything and everything on George W. Bush, but this is getting ridiculous. Please tell me how Bush is responsible for Russia and China getting together to have a war game. Then tell me why it hurts us so bad... or at all.

I agree with China becoming a super power but that is still a long ways off. And what is with the "we will probably have a war with them in our lifetime?" Just because they will have more power??

Originally Posted by Car Enthusiast

numbers no longer win wars, technology + highly trained military wins conflicts nowdays, the only way a huge standing army would make any difference is in full combat situations with another army, but with laser guided missles, and the complete technological superiority the us has over any other country in the world would handle that in a minute, here is how it goes, conflict begins, we go in with missiles and air power and wipe out their air defences/power, after that is over we roll in with air to ground air craft and the abhrams and wipe out whatever mechanized force they have then it is just clean up after that, i hope everyone understands that urban warfare and terrorists actions do not achieve military goals it just cause instability in an area, and that area wouldn't be our homeland, they could use nuclear weapons but that pretty much equals the end of their country as they know it, as far as i know the chinese are still using russian technology and tanks, and we kinda seen how that went in a smaller scale in iraq, the soviet tanks and aircraft cannot compete with what we have now

and does anyone seriously think anyone would attack us on our home soil, we might not have a big army now, but i would love to see the recruiting stations after an attack on america, the only way there will be any wars with america in the future is if we initiate it, no actual country would be dumb enough to attack the US,

the economic market that america supplies china with might be enough to keep them from attacking us alone

Originally Posted by schutzenkonig

Were you planning on explaining your stance? I'd still like to hear why this is so bad, and why Bush is to blame.

Originally Posted by Car Enthusiast

china replacing america as a super power??? when did this wheel start to turn, i would figure the EU or india would have a better chance of doing that

and china in a war with america, that is funny, why would they even have a chance?

Originally Posted by bleh123

Why this is bad? Russia is still a strong nation, sure it has gone to shit since the break up of the USSR, but it is still very strong and it is agressively pursuing building up its military. http://seattletimes.NWSource.com/ht...russarms13.html

Why Bush is to blame? OUr foriegn policy, directed by him b/c he is president....hmm tell me how good our diplomacy in the past 4 years ahve been? Obviously not very good considering the our policy has basically been: FUCK YOU, do what we say and drop bombs, very great policy. The world is pissed off at us, and Bush ahs pissed off Russia by pulling out of the treaty we signed with them 20 years earlier agreeing NOT to build an anti-missile defense system. That is reason enough to piss off the RUssians and for them to feel threatned by us again. It is bad to have CHina and Russia allied against us, no matter how you look at it, its bad.

Originally Posted by bleh123

um, ok I"m going to suggest to you Sun Tzu's Art of War, written thousands of years ago. Technology + highly trained armies win wars? Explain Vietnam, did we WIN that war? no, are we winning in Iraq right now? .....hmmm that remains to be seen. But I'm going to say this, we certainly aren't winning the hearts and minds of teh Iraqi people. and yes Iraq uses russian technology, but they had a shitty army to begin wtih with shitty loyalty and shitty leadership, China is not the same. CHina is not going to attack our homeland, they're going to attack Taiwan and because we are essentialy allies with Taiwan, we're goign to go to war with them if china attack taiwan. Also, ALMOST ALL of our recourses are concentrated in Iraq right now. If China were to decided to tattack Taiwon RIGHT NOW, good bye taiwan, and we wouldn't be able to do jack shit about it- seriously. ANd are you kidding me? th economix market that america supplies china? Hmm....I don't see a lot of "Made int eh USA" stickers in china, I bleive quite the reverse is actually happening....

Originally Posted by Lorill

Bleh, I am sorry but you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The Bush administration has stood by China in regards to Taiwan and openly opposes an independent Taiwan. Colin Powell was just there a couple of months ago:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/englis...tent_385511.htm

http://www.streetneeds.com/uploads/auser/china.jpg

Originally Posted by Car Enthusiast

vietnam was mainly lost because it was a conflict where the decision makers were politicians and not the military Intersting, I just read an article in my International Relations class and the fact is, you CANNOT leave political considerations out of military decisions. If you would be more than happy to spend lots of money on the book it is in or kindly wait until finals are over for me so I can photocopy teh article I will show it to you. and i say conflict because we never fully committed to that action either. And saying iraq didn't have a competent army is absurd, i think they were number three before the first iraqi conflict in the world when it came to militaries, either in number of men or advanced military i can't remember, we walked them hard and if things really get bad we don't even have to go nuclear anymore to level a country, b52 carpet bomb goodbye city without one ground troop sent in, and we still have personal in different theatres around the world, i forget the last count but wasn't there somewhere in the vicinity of 100k people in iraq now, there are still many other stationed people in bases around the world explain to me WHY the army is DESPERATE for troops right now and have been holding THOUSDANS of American soliders beyond their terms of, not just their tour of duty, but their fucking enlistement terms and I am a member of the ROTC, guess what was a no-shitter given to me by the cadre. "There are two types of soldiers in the army right now, those that are in Iraq and those that are going to Iraq" Also, we were committed to Vietnam considering there was at one time FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND troops in Vietnam, and do you hoenstly think carpet bombing a city to the ground is goign to wint he hearts and minds of Iraqi citizens? NOOOOOO durrrrr. Also, follow me on this people: When it comes to guerrilla warfare, the side that has the support of the local population is the side that wins. period. If you can fidn a conflict/war where the side that was unpopular won, please point it to out to me becuase I have yet to find such a case. And this is my point, ithe insurgency will continue to wreck havoc on Iraq (Elections that were set for next month are now DELAYED) until the population stops supporting them. Think about it, if all Iraqi citizens loved us, where would the terrorist be able to hide, store their weapons, attian food, water, supplies, if everyone was ratting them out instead of providing them with that?

and the market thing you said is exactly what i meant, their economy would grind to a halt without the US buying what they were selling, no economy no worries you have to be able to fund a war, as we demonstrated we can even on the verge of a recession we can still fund a successful military outcome You're forgetting that we aren't the only buyers of Chinese products, there are the other powers in the world such as EU< Russia and India

and iraq? we have already achieved the goals we set out to, now we are just trying to stabilize the country so they can run it themselves, as i said terrorism and insurrgents do not actually achieve military goals, They do not achieve military goals? Their goals are POLITICAL and they are doing pretty damn good well if you ask me. Insurgents don't achieve goals? The goal of the Viet COng was to drive America out, did it work? YESSSSSSSS look at isreal they have been in a state of terrorism for a while now and the palestinians can't get rid of them

and again we will not provoke another war, it would have to be from china that it would happen and there is no single country that can defeat america right now, earth v. usa maybe

Originally Posted by Lorill

Is the Washington Post ok?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2004Oct27.html

The comment that Bush made was from his first couple of months in office. He has since taken a stance more in favor of China.