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I was just wondering what kind of religious/belief diversity we have here. Many of you already know (or have figured out) that I'm Christian (Anglican to be precise). So what do you believe?

Jimi

I'm one of a few things, but Christian more-or-less. I believe in a lot of what Buddhism stands for, but, technically, that's not a religion. I also believe in Christian/Jewish/Muslim monotheism further back than the texts provide. It's hard to summarize what I believe. I believe in physics and biology, as a manifestion of a higher power. I believe that God is these things, and has manipulated them to create life, among other things.

Master Chief

Atheist. I wasn't raised with religion, and I won't raise my kids to be either. I'm too logical for it I guess.

I still respect people who do believe in whichever religion though. To each his own, right?

Jimi

Religion doesn't defy logic in the least. Every form of biology has orchestration, in some form or another.

ButterMup

I think Chief might be referring less to the organizational aspect of "organized religion" as being illogical and more to the illogic inherent in the principle of "faith", a word which, by its very definition, demands a suspension of logic.
Religion of any sort is nothing if it doesn't inspire faith in the existence of a higher being, power, or order, while faith itself is something which defies logical rationalization, replacing it instead with the exact opposite: a willingness to believe in that which has never been proven, simply for the sake of believing in something.
Without faith, there is no religion, yet without a continued lack of empirical proof one way or the other, there can be no such thing as faith.
Ergo, faith itself is a very illogical state of mind.

Being that objective need-to-knower which I am, I have a very hard time swallowing the concept of some Big Magic Spirit™ (whom you may feel free to name whatever you wish - the principle remains the same) which existed before existence even existed, and spends all its time floating around, by turns rewarding us with nifty miracles and admonishing us with bad luck and disaster.
I'm not an Atheist, nor am I not Agnostic in the strict application of the term. I'm just...I don't know...unconcerned, I suppose.
I can't prove such a thing as a higher power doesn't exist, but neither can I prove it does, and that's simply going to have to be enough for me.
I'm fine with holding on to that one unanswered question right up until the day I die; I'll either get my answer then...or I won't.

Jimi

Many people believe in many things that have not been proven to them, faith-wise or not. I believe that creationalism is obviously more valid than evolution as reformed as the word is. There simply hasn't been enough time on this planet for single-celled organisms to evolve into as many multi-cellular organisms as there are. I'd believe that aliens created us as forms of robots for slavery before I believed that we are evolved from such organisms.

Jimi

In saying that you're too logical for religion, you're saying people who believe in religion are illogical, therefore not respecting their beliefs.

ButterMup

Sooooo...just to be sure we're straight:
You're essentially opposed to the theory of evolution itself, whereas just about any other explanation for the presence of life on Earth is acceptable. Divine Intervention, Extraterrestrial Tinkering, Quantum Reality Crossover, Time Travel...whatever, so long as it doesn't involve the idea that we all spent billions of years slopping around in a primordial bisque, until one day, one of us got up the gumption to replicate, thusly kicking off Evolution.
Am I reading that right?
If so, I can't really argue your point as, again, I can neither prove nor disprove that you do or don't have a case. I'm not nearly well-versed enough in paleontology, geology, or chronology to be able to tell you you're wrong in saying that life on Earth hasn't had ample time to develop.
Believe it or not, this might just end up a draw.

EDIT:


Oi! Jimi! We were so close to an understanding, too!
People who have faith in a religion ARE illogical! Didn't I just explain that?
Religion is based upon faith, and faith exists outside of the realm of logic, explanation, and proof.
Here. My pals Merriam and Webster have something to tell you:

Main Entry: faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun

<snip>

2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God
(2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof
(2) : complete trust

<snip>

See?
Nobody's dissing anybody by saying that their faith is illogical.
It's nothing more than a simple statement of fact.

Jimi

To mutate to the extent of creating 46 and 48 chromosomed beings out of a single-celled, anucleic organism in the actual amount of time it took to get this far is inconceivable.

Scientist estimate the world is around 4.5 billion years old. That's a hell of a lot of years, but then they estimate that life on this planet is only 3 billion years, starting with Cyanobacteria (as a fellow aquarist, you should know the hassles of this paticular organism.) These organisms developed in one of three Eons: the Hadean, Archean, or Proterozoic Eon.

Since then, there have been several different eras of life, starting with the Paleozoic Era. The Paleozoic Era was when the first hard bodied organism showed up, about 540 to 248 million years ago. (That's quite a stretch in and of itself.)

The Mesozoic Era was from about 248 million years ago, to 65 million years ago.

As the diversity of life on this planet shifted, the eras changed, from Paleozoic, to Mesozoic, to Cenozoic Eras. There is a a definite transition in species diversity in these eras. Species mutation and biological anomolies could not have changed at such a drastic rate in the juxtaposition of these eras. It's biologically impossible. So, in the start of the last era transition, when most dinosaurs died off, and mammals took over, the possibility of evolution from Mesozoic to Cenozoic Eras is absurd.

Jimi

Let me add here that I believe in adaptation, not evolution to the extent it has been taken these days. Species change due to mutation. A world is not created due to it.

ButterMup

See!?
See that? Right up there!
That's a damn good argument, Jimi!

I can handle that, and can most certainly not say another thing about your belief that Evolution would've had a very, very hard time coming up with all the organisms we have on Earth in the time allotted.
I may remain unconvinced, just because this isn't really a topic which weighs on my mind terribly much, but you're perfectly entitled to believe what you believe nonetheless - much moreso when you can give what seem to be good, valid reasons to back it up.

Lorill

I am thinking about printing this out and reading it whenever the discussion of religion comes up because it seems to sum up my beliefs, which I have always had a hard time exressing, perfectly.

rrchopskc

I was raised Methodist, but I don't believe Jesus was my savior. A prophet yes, but no more than that. I do firmly believe in God though. I'd have to say my beliefs lean more towards Judaism or Islam because of that-since I certainly can't claim Christianity.

Master Chief

You're really reaching here Jimi. People who believe in religion are illogical in that specific sense, because faith, by definition (thanks ButterMup), means a lack of logic. I don't see