sillyrabbit

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after seeing the recent reports about the 500 tons being taken from the bunker in Iraq, its made me question what exactly the inspectors are lookin for...

i wonder, did they actually think theyd walk in there and find assembled nuclear bombs?....the components needed to make them were found, does it only matter if theyre all put together?....and does anyone realize what was part of those 500 tons?...the majority was of the two main components used in making high explosives such as C-4.....an example of the power of these explosives that could have been made was in a bus bombing...only a very small fraction, not even a half a pound of the stuff was used to create an explosive powerful enough to kill 140 people....and we're talkin 350 tons of it!!!....and this is just one bunker over there, think how much is still there or what else there is...

here in the U.S. we put kids in jail for havin plans to kill their fellow classmates and the materials needed to make explosives.....we've found the components to make high explosives and even nuclear weapons, but not together...should that really make a difference?

so, whats your idea of weapons of mass destruction?....its only a small fraction of what there is over there, and only a fraction of that is all it takes...personally i think 140 people dead would classify as mass destruction, but maybe thats just me...

VIVIX

If they have the components, fry their asses. Sadddam Husein (spelling?) definetely needs to be put in the public spotlight and fried. Even if they didn't find WMD's they still have him on charges against the kurds.


Sorry I'm having a bad night and am severely drunk. Whatever statements I've held in my honor and don't make sense...Yeah I'm retarded.

Jimi

They haven't found components to make Nuclear bombs! And, these 378 tons of explosives were not included under sanctions of the UN. Also, C4 is not used in nuclear weapons.

Indigenous

As far as I know, they haven't found any WMD's that weren't either:

a) False alarms. There was a fuss a while ago about some processing equipment that they thought could be used for WMD's but it turns out it was just plain ol' lab equipment. Same with those aluminum cylinders, I believe.

b) part of an arsenal which Iraq was allowed to keep in order to defend it's borders and such. Iraq expressed concern that if it was unable to defend itself, Iran would pose a significant threat to it's safety and was allowed a reasonable amount of short-range missiles, tanks, AA guns, etc.

On a side note, I'd like to say that I don't think its that Bush's critics don't want there to be WMD's found, just that we're extremely skeptical of the evidence that they are supposed to be there.

Personally, I'd be glad if there was definative proof. It'd sure make me feel better about all the soldiers we've lost.

P.S. It's 4:30 and my spelling and grammer skills have already gone to bedd

Jimi

Grammar. They have found evidence of chemical and biological weapons.... that date back to pre-1992.

romdos

Definition... By WMD they refer to Biological, Nuclear or Chemical weapons, not conventional explosives. As I understand it, the missing explosives were put there by UN Inspectors for safe keeping prior to the invasion by U.S. forces, and were not at that time in Iraq's possession. Although they are now in someones possession which is probably not a good thing...

schutzenkonig

There are also reports of it going missing before we arrived in Iraq. C4 is not a good explosive for much else than demolition (as in imploding a building)(as far as I know). As far as the components for nuclear weapons, if they had them, it's so difficult to make it work that all a terrorist could really do with it is make a "dirty bomb" (and if you didn't know, those are purely to make panic as they the RAD levels from them are minimal).

Jimi

There is also film of these bombs after we attacked Iraq. They were there. they are no longer there. Soldiers were cutting chains and locks on these doors, and not re-locking them. It would have been easy to get into any of these bunkers and take the munitions.

sillyrabbit

...you werent actually thinkin that i thought C-4 was used in nuclear weapons were you?

...the point was that the explosives taken, two of which are HMX and RDX are the two main compontents used in making very powerful explosives...such as C-4....

Quote from CNN..."The explosives, considered powerful enough to demolish buildings and detonate nuclear warheads, were well known before the war and had been sealed by U.N. inspectors, the IAEA said."

if they werent included in the UN sanctions, then why did the inspectors seal em off?

Quote from CBS..."The explosives included HMX and RDX, which can be used to demolish buildings but also produce warheads for missiles and detonate nuclear weaponry."

...my point was....these same explosives, in very small quantities could have been used to kill lots of people, or destory lots of stuff ...except they didnt have small quantities of the stuff, they had literally tons of it...i consider that mass destruction...

Jimi

No way! You don't just throw a bunch of highly explosive material where you want it to explode and expect mass destruction. The actual force of each explosion would equal the exact explosion to any of the same amount of the given material. This means that... say you have 2 explosives, of exactly the same size, material... everything is the same. If you place them side-by-side, then detonate them, the explosions would equal double the amount of force, in the same diameter. The explosion wouldn't be twice as big just because there was double the amount. Therefore, the same building that would have been demolished with one explosive, would have been demolished that much cooler with double the amount. HOWEVER.... If there was a more spread out space that these explosives were in, they would have more effect. Even still... that would only be so, had the explosives all been made into one, large, house-sized bomb. You can't call these WMD just because there was a lot of material. Also.... as far as nuclear bombs.... you might as well have banned them from owning guns, since many times, the detonater is a simple...... bullet.

sillyrabbit

actually i can Jimi ....i think explosives commonly used in terrorist attacks that cause many deaths, or destroy buildings are in fact WMD...they may not be capable of destroying cities, but hundreds dead is massive enough for me to be concerned

...and you cant detonate a nuclear bomb by shooting it....i looked into it just in case you were right :happycow: ....plus, that was a pretty weak argument for you Jimi...i expected more from you

....do you really think banning them from owning guns would be that bad of an idea?...personally i dont see why the average person needs a few automatic weapons, some hand grenades, and an RPG or two to be happy in life :wiggle:

and what?....no comment on the UN sanctions?

Jimi

Well, Miss Toosmart.... I didn't say you could shoot a Nuclear bomb and it would explode. Nuclear bombs use highly unstable radiactive materials, such as uranium-235. In a nuclear bomb, a sphere of U-235 is place at the end of a long tube. At the other end of the tube is a U-235 "bullet" with a gun-trigger mechanism. When the bomb is to explode, the gun-trigger mechanism shoots the U-235 bullet into the U-235 sphere. That's the jist of how the weapon works. So, guess your expectations should have stayed high?

Also, as far as your perception of what a WMD is.... your definition really doesn't matter, to be quite frank. As far as any governmental/military/scientific/pyrotechnic engineer goes.... C4, or components, are not a WMD.

The UN sanctions did not include the materials found. Iraq was allowed particular short-ranged missiles, and these missiles could clearly have been built with these explosive materials.

Jimi

As far as that being a weak argument... I was simply saying that a bullet could be used as a detonater. If you are going to ban something because it COULD lead to the detonation of WMD, then you would have to ban pretty much everything. These materials were used in short-range missiles. In any design of a nuclear weapon, these materials are not used.

Jimi

THIS is a WMD.