nikkipornoface

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http://slate.msn.com/id/2107100/

http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=441

http://www.observer.com/pages/story.asp?ID=7508

http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/che.html

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/art...23/171252.shtml

nikkipornoface

People wear shirts with his face on it....they think he was a great revolutionary man.

What, no opinions?

Lorill

Here is a shirt I have. Most people don't pick up on the fact that it is a picture of Corey Feldman's face and/or that it is a Che Guevara reference.

nikkipornoface

That is a parody and doesn't really qualify as a Che shirt.

However, I see these shirts around all the time. And the people who are wearing them think it is cool because "Che was a revolutionary."

Little do they know, Che was an evil man that was responsible for the murders or 10's of thousands of innocent people.

Their ignorance makes me sick

AmorMiHombre

I'm reading the articles now. I read a review in Premiere magazine of the new movie The Motorcycle Diaries of Che's roadtrip with a friend that got him thinking the way he does as he sees the poverty blah blah blah of those around him. The reviewer stated how this movie is only going to make more kids buy more of those posters and shirts for their frat houses and to make some sort of hipster statement.

My friend's boyfriend has a Che poster in his room and he probably wouldn't be able to tell me the first thing about him, if he was even able to pronounce his name correctly. Perhaps it's another reason why i don't put many posters up in my room...Especially of things/people i know nothing about whether it's a band or Malcolm X or Che et cetera.

Indigenous

Normally, I wouldn't revive a thread that has been dead this long, but given Juan's More Topics thread, I thought I'd give it a shot.

First off, I'd like to say that I agree with the whole Che posters/shirts/etc thing. It bugs me to hell that most people I see wearing one wouldn't be able to tell me the first thing about him. It reminds me of the Malcolm X fad back in the 90's. It was just sad to see so many young black men walking around in an "X" jacket or hat but weren't even remotely versed in what the man stood for.

With that said, I would like to point out that I think the image of Che as taken on a more symbolic meaning than a literal one. He has become an icon. A symbol representing the political, religious and economically oppressed's struggle for freedom. When someone slaps on an American flag bumper sticker they aren't proudly proclaiming their support of slavery, indigenous genocide and imperialism, they are expressing their support for the positive ideals which that flag represents.

Many (I'm not implying all or even most) Latin Americans are extremely proud of Che and Castro because they successfully challenged the U.S. which has bloodily crushed all other nationalistic, anti poverty movements in Latin America/Caribbean. For 45 years, the U.S. has supported bloody Latin American military dictatorships and crushed any anti-poverty movements that may have given any hope to 85% of the population. So fiercely does this colonial elite hold on, that 3000 were killed or disappeared under Pinochet after the U.S. installed him, 30,000 were killed in Argentina after Henry Kissinger approved of the repression and 200,000 were slaughtered by the right wing military in Guatemala that the U.S. installed and funded.

Che Guevara died with blood on his hands, no doubt, but he fought for the people who had no voice. He was tired of the masses having nothing while a select few had so much. It's true the Cuban revolution did not come into fruition, but Che cannot be faulted for that. Guevara did not join Castro in order to lead Cuba. His role was soley to overthrow the despotic Batista government, and when that was accomplished he moved on and took part in other revolutions. The current situation in Cuba, which despite its problems is a hell of a lot better than it was pre-revolution, is due to both Castro not adapting to the times and the ridiculous embargo.

To say that "Che was an evil man that was responsible for the murders or 10's of thousands of innocent people" is a generalization. Che did take part in executions and he did kill people, but he did this all in combat. He was not a bloodthirsty man, he didn't kill for fun, he killed because he was at war. I doubt that many would claim that the tens of thousands of lives we have taken from Iraq or Vietnam or Korea or any other war were done out of evilness. Nor would many call our founding fathers "evil". They did what they had to do. It's quite difficult to overthrow a government without bloodshed. I don't think it's right, or any killing at all is right for that matter, but Che never killed because he was evil. In fact, if you were to read up on Che's actions in Cuba, he turned countless numbers of prisoners over to the Red Cross in order to save their lives, something that was quite unusual for a guerilla movement.

My point is that yes, Che killed people, Che won't win the Nobel Peace Prize, Che might not be the best role model, but he fought and died for what he believed in. Many of the things that those articles blame him for such as the labor camps, were installed long after Che had left Cuba. What Che wanted Cuba to be and what Castro has turned it into are two very different things. One cannot look at how the country is today and the things it has done and immediately put the blame on Che's shoulders.

Chameleon Grrl

Fucking brilliant - many thanks Indigenous.

Jimi

to Indigenous. There's not much I can say, because he summed it up quite nicely. The word cummunism, to many, automatically makes someone evil. Communist idealism is not an evil thing. His ideas were those of social ambience, even though war was inevitable. Read a history of him.

Juan.©amaney

The only thing I never agreed with regarding comunism was the rejection of any organized religion. I was raised catholic, and hold on to it.

I was an activist back in HS and most of our people knew who Che was. I'm awaiting the Motorcycle Diaries myself to see how they will depict him, that and I love any movies with Gael in it.

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Jimi

Communism as a theory doesn't totally disregard religion, it allows freedom in personal thought. As people do, leaders in communistic states have adapted the ideologies of communism to benefit their own intentions. Communism in itself is not necessarily a bad idea, however, due to the US intentions and ignorance in the Cold War Era, people have learned to fear anything that is proceeded with the word Communism. These articles don't get into the good that Che Guevera generated, but flaunt the word Communist because it sounds anti-democratic, and anti-capitalist, and induces fear in the American people.

For all the right-wingers who have debated with me.... I am not a communist just because I think it has its good ideas.

Juan.©amaney

Read what I said again. ORGANIZED religion. Oposed in Cuba, so catholicism is practiced clandestinely.

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Jimi

I did read what you said. I was clarifying. I'm not always trying to tell you what's up, Juan.

Juan.©amaney

lets just not go off on a tangent and discussing comunism, and get back to the original topic of the thread; Che.

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Juana!

Indigenous,

I'm just spechless by your post... so well educated and to the point.... posts like this makes wr more enjoyable.. thanks

ps... if still available i have a couple of sisters