Richius

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OK I'm sick and tired of people saying how bad Bush has been. I want reasons. Name some things, in your opinion, that Bush did that was bad.

Leave the "baby killer," "trashed the economy," and other lame excuses at the door. Good, concrete reasons of "bad" things he has done are welcome here.


Now, for myself: I consider him a moderate president. Not as great as Reagan, but not as bad as Carter. He has done some things which I hate, and he has done some things which I like. Overall I would say he is fair, and I will be voting for him again.

What did I not like?

1) The Patriot Act. This is a blatant infringement on individual rights. I'm sure that while it hasn't been abused, and that it has been very welcome, it is against the spirit of the Constitution.

2) Bush's policy on immigration: This is just bad. I know why he is doing it: to appeal to hispanic votes. But, this is the United States of America, not the United States of Immigrants.

3) His support for the UN: It is appaling. We should withdraw from the UN and give them five years to get out of the United States.

4) He is overspending. CUT SPENDING. Start with welfare, social security, and that crap that will destroy themselves in 20 years anyways.

5) Department of Homeland Security. Do we really need another government branch?

Superhuman

Withdraw from the UN ?!!! So America goes all on itself just like they did in Iraq ?? Sorry dude, but at the moment I can't think of a more stupid thing for your country to do. Your country has made a lot of enemies the last 2 years. Best thing they can do now is to keep friends with their allies.

Richius

Withdrawing from the Useless Nations will not affect our ability to make alliances with other countries. I really think that an free trade alliance with Australia, Canada (hopefully), and the United Kingdom is much more significant than a bunch of money grubbing morons at the Useless Nations.

I mean, with Libya running the human rights commission, and before Saddam's demise Iraq and Iran chairing the weapons program commission, it is a ZOO.

Superhuman

I do agree that there's a lot of shit getting screwed up at the moment. The world is actually screwed up at the moment (has always been but especially now). BUT World War III is at it's closest now, besides that China is rising and WILL be the world's leading force in 10 years. It's important to keep united now.

Richius

Well, be united without us. We have violated more UN regulations than any other nation. We deserve to be kicked out.

Superhuman

hehe and then what ?? Leave America to create ''democracy'' in Country's they don't have a rats ass to say about ?? Or do foreign country's need America's vote for their government from now on ? What are they going to do ?? Attack Iran now too, considering the support they had for the Iraq war a war against Iran won't be much better either. Plus if you thought about being succesfull in your war against terrorism you will need help from other countries. They're all over the fucking place.

America will most defenitly not gain respect if they'd withdraw from the UN. Many country's are mad at America for going to Iraq without's the UN's permission, withdrawing from it will make it even worse. Ruin the friendships with allies and you're leaving an open field for the enemy. Unfortunetly America is not as undefeatable as they seem, infact China has already invented missiles of wich they only need two to take out the ENTIRE American fleet. Be smart, and stick together with your allies. It's not smart to punch somebody in the face all by yourself while he is with 20 other guys.

mxpxbigd285

How about Bush's appalling stance on gay marriages?

The man wants a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT banning gay marriages. Could he possibly play MORE to the right?

Now I'm not gay, and I may not agree with what they do, but they sure as hell have the right to do it regardless of anyone else's personal beliefs. To take away somebody's rights by changing the Constitution is beginning to border quite closely on letting religious values dictate our government. Just in case you have forgotten, separation of church and state is pretty damn important in this country.

And, just to be on the record, the fact that the economy is in shambles right now is not a "lame excuse" on why to get rid of Bush. It is a perfectly legitimate reason. Now yes, the post-9/11 economy was in no way his fault. BUT. when Bush took office, his plan to make new jobs called for 6 million NEW jobs to be created. since he took office, the country has LOST about 1 million jobs.

We now have the largest budget deficit that weve had in the past 11 years. Clinton handed him a $230 billion surplus. since then it has been steadily declining.

now im not saying i trust kerry any more than i trust bush. kerry has done nothing so far to make me trust him. it just seems that bush has done things to the contrary, making kerry seem better by default.

Insaniteus

He cut more from education, troops benefits, and healthcare than any president in American history. There's a nationwide nursing shortage and teacher's shortage and he's attempting to push legislation to lower both of their pay.

-Insaniteus-

Car Enthusiast

Bush hmmm, i am a big supporter of him he has done a few things i don't agree with, mostly the patriot act

but his plan on making illegal immigrants legal is not a pro illegal immigrant issue, he wants to make them legal so companies will have to pay them a decent wage like normal americans, and insure them like they would regular employees, which businesses will have no reason to hire an illegal when you have to give them the same things as a citizen, it takes away the incentive to hire cheap labor and work them harder and not take responsibility for it, this also will solve some problems with the way americans have become lazy, and wont work a labor intensive job for minimum wage, my dad runs a sawmill where you have to stack the lumber in bundles, but no one wants to do it cause it is in the heat and it is labor oriented but in no way hard, but too many people have become pansified and won't "stoop" to that low of a level, but when the forestry industry has to pay more to hire some one don't everyone go complaining about the price increase, mexicans, sorry to use a stereotype, work really hard, because instead of being a lazy american who won't accept a job like that, will work all day there cause they are wanting a better life, and i can guarantee everyone here during this recession while everyone was out "looking for jobs", there was no influx of applicants at any sawmill i spoke to

i agree with superhuman about keeping allies, but the rest of the UN needs to realize, that without the US and britian there is no UN, we carry the brunt of responsibility, and the US more than the UK, because we rake in more money and can handle it, i think we should some observant people this by defeating a nation with only 2 countries in reality, but bush has tread the foreign affairs line a bit on the isolationist side of things, but in my opinion has made up for it with staying with the UN but not giving up our military dominance of things

but superhuman, china is of no importance to anyone, the people are oppressed by a dictator who is border line crazy by reports, and last time heard they were economically in shambles, just because they have some nukes does not mean they would be able to stand with anykind of allies against another joining of allies like the UK the US, and trust me if it came down to a ww3 type deal there would be many more countries on our side this time, because no one would want the chinese dictator running things, he is a borderline oldschool warlord almost kept in check by greater nations, there are other asian countries that worry me much more than china, maybe if they had a revolution which is likely to happen soon, i would worry after about 10 years for things to stabilize for them but not with the leadership they have now, and what are you talking about 2 missiles to take out the american fleet, our navy is stationed all over the place, if you are talking about nukes yeah we have had those kind of weapons for a long time now and have the restraint from using them to rule the world. bush is in no way looking to start another war right now, his own country is very split on the issue and he is not (as some people would have you believe) a moron, actually if i was a country looking to get away with something big i would do it right now because it would take something really big for the US to get drawn into something. And for saying that foreign countries need our approval of what kind of government they should use, shows you obviously haven't been paying attention to iraq, we are letting iraq's set things up and run their own countries, some of the candidates for election are soooo what bush's gov does not want in power but we are not trying to set up a 51st state, bush's gov wants to give the country to the people, we are just keeping sect leaders in check so they can't scare the country into submission again

as far as the gay marriage issue, bush might be a little to the right on this one, but i bet that the majority of the country would support him, and furthermore, the whole gay issue is all about money, do not kid yourself about this one, civil unions offer the same things that you can do with a hetero marriage, the only thing is companies insurance and taxes do not accept a civil union as a married lifestyle and won't give you the tax benefits and rate reduction and benefits you would get if you were married, that is not an issued of gay marriage but an issue of making civil unions accepted in the eyes of corporations, all of the other excuses gay couples inhibit can fall under the civil unions in terms of love feelings and being accepted in society

and how people can associate bill clinton with any kind of term that has to do with "good" or "president" is beyond me, the economy went into a recession in large part because of the dotcom bubble being burst, and i thought that happened in the first 6 months of bush's presidency????? how can you blame anyone for something that happened in the first 6 months of the time he took the job?????? and now that are economy is becoming better no one says it is because of bush that it is doing better now, because the economy is only affected by the president so much and no blame or credit can be placed on a single person for changes in that

i3eeker

Well besides the uncalled for war, stupid economic ideas, and trying to impose his religion into the government via banning gay marriages and banning abortions, I would have to say I hate his stance on the enviroment. He's all about money and corporations than he is for the enviroment. I'm surprised this isn't a bigger issue in this election.

Car Enthusiast

religion has always been a part of politics, if you think it hasn't you are fooling yourself, if not your religion then someone elses thats for sure

Car Enthusiast

oops, i am against his views on abortions, and stupid economic ideas??? you need to quit watching the 6 o clock news things have been swinging up for a few months now

i am not real sure that his stance on the environment is a big issue, i don't think he is really doing anything against it, other than not letting oil companies drill in alaska.....oh wait that is for the environment my bad

Superhuman

That wasn't my point Car Enthusiast. It was not about the muscle type of thing or anything. The point I was trying to make is that there is another huge force rising and that America just needs to stick together with their allies just like every other country in the world. I just gave China as an example because they're the most obvious one, plus the fact that even though I'm not pro-bush, I rather have him running the office of the world's leading force then those extreme fuckers in China who still hardly know what civil rights are. If China keeps growing as they're doing now they will become the next world's leading force, and I do not like the thought of that. The fact that the Western World will keep as strong if they'll unite instead of seperate because of the bullshit going on now is only a satisfying thought .

Besides that, China doesn't want to go to war now either, because they know they're nowhere without their Western allies (their economy etc...will collapse, trading business with the Western countries is one of the thing wich mostly makes them powerful).

My worries aren't with China, nope, they're with Israel.

Car Enthusiast

isreal?? really??, cause without the US isreal would have faded away a long time ago without our help

and i also want the world community to come back together and quit being divided, because the world is an interdependent community even though some people think the US could do it alone, which we could be not get the outstanding results that has been accomplished in the world lately, i do no want it to go back to the cold war and many warring nations like back in the day, i would like to see the day when the world becomes one place instead of many different countries, but that will be a long time after i thaw out of cryogenic hybernation