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Old 07-27-2004, 09:43 PM   #16
Superhuman
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

I just read Michael Moore has sent an open invitation to Bush to come watch his documentary with him in Texas too.

I so hope Bush will accept the invitation. Moore is just a stupid fuck with a too big ego.
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Old 07-27-2004, 11:55 PM   #17
mxpxbigd285
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Car Enthusiast

as far as the gay marriage issue, bush might be a little to the right on this one, but i bet that the majority of the country would support him, and furthermore, the whole gay issue is all about money, do not kid yourself about this one, civil unions offer the same things that you can do with a hetero marriage, the only thing is companies insurance and taxes do not accept a civil union as a married lifestyle and won't give you the tax benefits and rate reduction and benefits you would get if you were married, that is not an issued of gay marriage but an issue of making civil unions accepted in the eyes of corporations, all of the other excuses gay couples inhibit can fall under the civil unions in terms of love feelings and being accepted in society

and how people can associate bill clinton with any kind of term that has to do with "good" or "president" is beyond me, the economy went into a recession in large part because of the dotcom bubble being burst, and i thought that happened in the first 6 months of bush's presidency????? how can you blame anyone for something that happened in the first 6 months of the time he took the job?????? and now that are economy is becoming better no one says it is because of bush that it is doing better now, because the economy is only affected by the president so much and no blame or credit can be placed on a single person for changes in that


as far as the gay marriage issue, youre absolutely right its all about the money. why should two women in a "civil union," living the married lifestyle, not get the same economic opportunities as a "normal" couple of a man and woman? if all men are, indeed, created equal, then they should be given the same benifits regardless of sexual orientation.

WHEN BILL CLINTON ENTERED THE WHITE HOUSE THERE WAS A $290 BILLION FEDERAL DEFICIT, IT WAS PROJECTED THAT BY THE YEAR 2000 IT WOULD BE A $455 BILLION DEFICIT. BY THE YEAR 2000, IT WAS ACTUALLY A $230 BILLION SURPLUS, TOPPING THE PREVIOUS RECORD OF $122.7 BILLION (set the previous year under, uhhhh, CLINTON). is it still beyond you how anyone could relate the words "good" and "president" to him? Under Clinton we had one of the strongest (if not THE strongest) economy in united states history.
and hold on a second - are you ACTUALLY trying to claim that the first 6 MONTHS after Bush being inaugurated, he cant be held accountable for ANYTHING that happened? what planet are you living on? thats an extremely frightening assumption.
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:13 AM   #18
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhuman
Withdraw from the UN ?!!! So America goes all on itself just like they did in Iraq ?? Sorry dude, but at the moment I can't think of a more stupid thing for your country to do. Your country has made a lot of enemies the last 2 years. Best thing they can do now is to keep friends with their allies.



the UN is a corrupt bloated system that should be shut down.
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Old 07-28-2004, 05:14 AM   #19
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

How's about LYING to the American people in his state of the union address about Iraq trying to buy uranium in Africa.
Also, the VP gives the admin a huge conflict of interest on any issues relating to mid east/oil
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Old 07-28-2004, 05:28 AM   #20
Vetteman
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

Ok bad things bush has done......Hummm hard one. I cant think of any. First the Bad economy was inherated from the clinton era. That was all done by raising taxes and shutting down HOW many military bases and leaveing our soldiers outa work? so cant blame that on him. Weapons in Iraq MMMM cant blame that on him he recieved the same intelligence that any other president would have. Come to think of it i cant think of a bad thing he has done???????? Except be a republican According to your local neighborhood dems thats the only bad thing. OMG WTF ? get over it allready.
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Old 07-28-2004, 07:40 AM   #21
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

click on one of our sponsors! OR REMOVE ADS
No president is perfect. We have had good ones and we have had terrible ones. I do believe we should keep Bush in office. He has been a decent president and would do more in the next term, in my opinion, to help this country then Kerry would if he is to become president.
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:24 PM   #22
mxpxbigd285
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetteman
Ok bad things bush has done......Hummm hard one. I cant think of any. First the Bad economy was inherated from the clinton era.


do i really need to say it again?

CLINTON left BUSH with a $230 BILLION BUDGET SURPLUS. under clinton we had one of the strongest economies EVER.

*sigh*
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:42 PM   #23
shadowmaster
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

Every President has a budget. Every Presidents budget is not directly reflected in the economy until the following term. That's how long it takes to see the long term effects of that presidents plan. The first half of Regans adminitration was a failing economy that he got from a democrate. The second half was on a swing back up. The next President continued his economic plan. (Bush Sr) Economy kept swinging upwards. Next President repead the benefits of 12 years of Republican Economics. By then end of his administration the economy was on a fast moving crash. (Clinton) Not to mention he raised taxes more then any other president in history. The next president (Bush) as turned the economy from a crash to a balance. Not climbing yet but no longer crashing. So in your statement Clinton gave him a surplus but then again any president that is going to tax the hell out of you and me can certainly produce a surplus.
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Old 07-28-2004, 01:55 PM   #24
mxpxbigd285
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

youre absolutely correct, every president DOES have a budget. that budget is a plan on what money will be spent where. clinton came in uder his estimate by around $230 biliion.

Bush has done such a great job planning his spending that somewhere along the line hes lost quite a bit (actually, around $500 billion). "oops, i didn't know i was going to need to spend that $500 billion."

but from the way this debate is going, i can see that its going to be nothing more than republican/democrat he said/she said type stuff. no thanks. ive made my points.
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Old 07-28-2004, 05:57 PM   #25
Justin
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowmaster
Every President has a budget. Every Presidents budget is not directly reflected in the economy until the following term. That's how long it takes to see the long term effects of that presidents plan. The first half of Regans adminitration was a failing economy that he got from a democrate. The second half was on a swing back up. The next President continued his economic plan. (Bush Sr) Economy kept swinging upwards. Next President repead the benefits of 12 years of Republican Economics. By then end of his administration the economy was on a fast moving crash. (Clinton) Not to mention he raised taxes more then any other president in history. The next president (Bush) as turned the economy from a crash to a balance. Not climbing yet but no longer crashing. So in your statement Clinton gave him a surplus but then again any president that is going to tax the hell out of you and me can certainly produce a surplus.



I couldnt have said it better myself.

Job rate rising, low unemployment rate, in fact same #'s during clintons term. Untill the .com bubble burst.
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Old 07-28-2004, 05:59 PM   #26
Justin
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpxbigd285
do i really need to say it again?

CLINTON left BUSH with a $230 BILLION BUDGET SURPLUS. under clinton we had one of the strongest economies EVER.

*sigh*



Yeah, 9-11 had a bit to do with the surplus going away.
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Old 07-28-2004, 07:11 PM   #27
mxpxbigd285
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Yeah, 9-11 had a bit to do with the surplus going away.


I've already said in this thread that Bush can't be blamed for the post 9-11 economy.

But then again, I'm sure you already knew that?
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Old 07-28-2004, 07:14 PM   #28
mxpxbigd285
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpxbigd285
Now yes, the post-9/11 economy was in no way his fault. BUT. when Bush took office, his plan to make new jobs called for 6 million NEW jobs to be created. since he took office, the country has LOST about 1 million jobs.




see?
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Old 07-28-2004, 07:43 PM   #29
shadowmaster
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

Ok...so if Bush cannot be blamed for the post 9-11 economy, Clinton's budget to be balanced was to raise your taxes, Clinton's economy failed once the .com's failed, then how was Clinton's economic's any better then Bush's. Oh and where did the extra billion's of $$$ go that Bush has been spending. Well there's a little thing called a War going on. Or hasn't history proven over time and time again that all economies under a war time are always failing economies.

Just to sum up HOW Clinton gained a surplus; reduced the military forces in our nation to the lowest it had been since the attack on Pearl Harbor; Raised taxes higher then any other president in American History; Closed the Federal Government a couple of times to cut budget spending. Damn, How could any president NOT have a surplus under those practices?

Look, in my humble opinion, Clinton was one of the worst presidents this nation has ever seen. Bush is by far not the best president we have ever seen. His policy with the No Child Left Behind Act is a horrid program for education. It leaves NO room for error. BUT, after Embassies over seas had been attacked, after the world trade center had been bombed, after the disaster in Simalia, and even after the bombing of the Cole Clinton did not react to the terrorist. We turned a blind side to the dead AMERICANS and did nothing. Did that save the USA money by doing nothing? Hell yes it did. Did that help foreign policy? Of course it did because we simply rolled over and let the rest of the world walk right over the top of us. Hell I would have hated to see how things would have turned out if Clinton had been in office during the cold war...damn we might all be communist if that had happened.

Anyways, all I am saying is that neither president is perfect. I am not a Clinton supporter and never will be. He served his term and now it's time to move on. Bush I believe is doing a fine job. Not perfect but fine. Kerry I do not believe would do any better. His idea's to saving national debt is to raise taxes. His idea on foriegn policy is the immediate withdrawl of troops from Iraq. Quit frankly the democratic party has been doing everything it can to tear this nation apart. That display in Washington DC just after 9-11 was nothing more then a short time lived unity and now most of those democrates that stood on those steps that day are completely opposed to doing what they supported back then.

To hell with them all I say... LOL
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Old 07-28-2004, 08:00 PM   #30
Car Enthusiast
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Re: Bush--All the bad things he has done

Quote:
Originally Posted by neerlyperfct
How's about LYING to the American people in his state of the union address about Iraq trying to buy uranium in Africa.
Also, the VP gives the admin a huge conflict of interest on any issues relating to mid east/oil


(Note: Michael Barone is a senior writer for US News and World Report)

The 'Bush Lied' folks can't be taken seriously
by Michael Barone

Official reports issued the last two weeks have conclusively refuted those who have been arguing that "BUSH LIED" about the dangers from Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction programs. The first report was that of the Senate Intelligence Committee. That committee has been rent by partisan divisions over the last year, but the report was unanimous.

One prime conclusion of the report is that American intelligence organizations, like those of every other major country, did indeed believe that Saddam Hussein's regime possessed weapons of mass destruction and had ongoing WMD programs. That intelligence seems to have been mistaken. But given Saddam Hussein's documented development, possession and use of WMDs, and his refusal to account for their disposal, what intelligence evidence could have convinced a reasonable analyst that he no longer had them? As the Brookings Institution's Michael O'Hanlon -- a frequent Bush critic -- puts it, "It would have taken an overwhelming body of evidence for any reasonable person in 2002 to think that Saddam did not possess stockpiles of chemical and biological agents."

So Bush was justified in relying on the intelligence. And "the committee did not fund any evidence that administration officials attempted to coerce, influence or pressure analysts to change their judgments related to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capabilities." So much for the wild charges that Bush manipulated intelligence and lied about weapons of mass destruction. He simply said what was believed by every informed person -- including leading members of the Clinton administration before 2001 and Sens. John Kerry and John Edwards in their speeches in October 2002 supporting military action in Iraq.

The Senate Intelligence Committee report also refuted completely the charges by former diplomat Joseph Wilson that the Bush administration ignored his conclusion, based on several days in Niger, that Iraq had not sought to buy uranium in that country. Democrats and many in the press claimed that Wilson refuted the 16-word sentence Bush's 2003 State of the Union speech, noting that British intelligence reported that Iraq sought to buy uranium in Africa. But British intelligence stands by that finding, and the committee noted that Wilson confirmed that Iraq had approached Niger, whose main exports are uranium and goats, and intelligence analysts concluded that his report added nothing else to their previous knowledge. And the report flatly denied Wilson's statements that his wife, CIA agent Valerie Plame, had nothing to do with his mission to Niger -- it quotes Plame's memo taking credit for the appointment.

The report issued last week in Britain by former civil servant Lord Butler reaches similar conclusions. It finds that Prime Minister Tony Blair did not pressure intelligence organizations to change their findings and that there was no "deliberate distortion" of intelligence or "culpable negligence." It supported the conclusion of British intelligence that Iraq was seeking to buy uranium in Africa.

All this is significant because for the past year most leading Democrats and many in the determinedly anti-Bush media have been harping on the "BUSH LIED" theme. Their aim clearly has been to discredit and defeat Bush. The media continue to fight this battle: contrast the way The New York Times, The Washington Post and the Los Angeles Times front-paged the Wilson charges last year with the way they're downplaying the proof that Wilson lied deep inside the paper this year.
Yale historian John Lewis Gaddis has argued that George W. Bush has transformed American foreign policy, in response to the threat of Islamist terrorism, more than any president since Harry Truman transformed our foreign policy in response to the threat of aggressive communism. But there is one big difference. In the late 1940s, Truman got bipartisan support from Republicans like Arthur Vandenberg and Thomas Dewey, even at a time when there were bitter differences between the parties on domestic policy, and received generally sympathetic treatment in the press. This time, George W. Bush has encountered determined opposition from most Democrats and the old-line media. They have charged that "BUSH LIED" even when he relied on the same intelligence as they did; they have headlined wild and spurious charges by the likes of Joseph Wilson; they have embraced the wild-eyed propaganda of the likes of Michael Moore.

mind you i don't have the link for this, but i got it off of a local board and a very respected friend of mine posted it so i do believe this

but i do have this link
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=express&s=peretz072104
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