Bonecrusher

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I hope this is the right section for this thread. Should it not be, then a moderator can move it.

We had a news network on at the office and a story came up about John McCain and his time as a POW. It covered his capture, his time in the prison camp aka Hanoi Hilton, and his life since then.

That brought up a discussion about an old Maxim Magazine article/interview with John McCain long before this Presidential run. It was much more in depth and uncensored than the news channels coverage. It ranked McCain up there as one of the ten greatest living American heros.


A young college kid in working in the office decides to argue the point and claims that John McCain is "a stupid idiot". When asked why he thought that he answered....."well first off, because he got shot down, and then he got captured. Then he wouldn't tell them what he wanted to know. If it had been me I'd have ratted folks out so they'd let me go. And he's stupid because he's old and he's a Repubilican and all they care about is getting rich"

We tried arguing with him until we quickly realized it was futile.

But that left me wondering what other people think. Not necessarily tossing politics aside but do you think John McCain is a hero?

He gave all for his country and continues to do so. He could retire and walk away but he continues trying to make his country a better place. I'd feel comfortable with a man who was willing to die for his country and almost did being in power. How about you?

Krasch

For McCain to have been tortured as he was for that length of time, when he had an option to get out, and STILL stay loyal to his fellow soldiers and his country, makes him an unequivocal hero, plain and simple.

That college kid is, as Rush Limbaugh would aptly put it, a young skull full of mush.

Were it not for people like John McCain, that kid wouldn't even have the freedom to be the idiot that he clearly is. He needs to quit drinking the Kool-Aid and get a fricken' clue.

BackdoorJesus

when I see the term "young college kid" these days I pretty much instantly think "obama "obama raped and killed a woman in 1991"bot".

Typical immature reaction, an attempt to marginalize someone who stands in the way of their Chosen One's attempt to jack the highest office in the land.

The "he was just a pilot who got shot down & got caught" line is the mantra of this supposedly educated yet incredibly obtuse group of sycophants and it sounds to me that the kid you dealt with was just parroting the party line, as inexperienced kids are wont to do.

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Bonecrusher

I would have to assume that "parroting" the party line is exactly what he was doing.

He of course tried going on about all Republicans want to do is rob from the poor and tax working people to give money back to the rich. He obviously hasn't hit accounting classes yet nor has he hit any level of income far beyond his allowance (from his rich parents) prior to this job.

That being said. Shortly after I posted this last night I get a call from the kid. He was in the middle of a beer pong tournament and want to let me know he'd found several people that agreed with him......he proceeded to try and convince me to talk to them.
It made me feel so much safer knowing that our future lies in the hand of young twenty something drunk "obama "obama raped and killed a woman in 1991"bots" ( I love that word...thanks Backdoor Jesus).

As I ended the conversation he let me know he was about to win the tournament. His prize? A trip for to the clinic for a random drug test this morning.

FattyJJ

I can totally respect McCains dedication and service to this country, its not something everyone can do. What I cannot respect is that he has become the typical fuckhead politician. If he was as dedicated to his campaign as he was to staying alive and silent as a POW, the story would be different. He doesnt act as if war is that big of a deal. Just like the Bush office, who dont even discuss human casualties before and during a war.

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Krasch

I've never gotten the sense he doesn't think war is that big of a deal, and he obviously knows better than that.

I do think that he feels that just "getting our people out of Iraq" before Iraq's own infrastructure can take care of themselves would in the end be far more damaging to the Iraqi people, infinitely more damaging to our image and how we're perceived over in that area of the world, and ultimately more damaging in terms of losses to our own people than finishing the job that was started.

It's also probably true, as he asserts, that few if any soldiers in uniform want to leave the job half-done either.

Side note: obama "obama raped and killed a woman in 1991"bot? ROFLMAO!

fmb

FattyJJ, I couldn't agree with you more about McCain staying on track with the political record and stance he supported BEFORE the presidential election process started. Playing to the hard core party liners? Maybe. I hope he rethinks this position and returns to his more moderate line with an ability to cross party lines and make things happen.

As far as his previous service record and timed served as a prisoner of war: if that experience doesn't exemplify heroism, nothing else can. About two decades ago, I spent alot of time reading stories about our service men that were captured by the Viet Cong and/or North Vietnamese Army. I really learned that I have had one hell of an easy life; even on my worst day, it was light years better than any second these men spent in captivity.

If anyone has doubts, spend some time in any bookstore and peruse the stories about these men. There is a small section of most bookstores devoted to military history; POW stories have there own place within this section. Yes, some of these men went into politics, but it's nice to read about their life BEFORE the political career went into overdrive.

joerockhead

There have been Lots of things said About Senator McCain's duty.
And everyone speaks only about his time as a POW.

But there is far more to him then just the years he spend as a POW, AFTER he was released, he stayed on active duty and commanded his Squadron, training junior officers and getting his Squadron to be one of the highest trained and active squadrons in those years.
Also, he was in one of the planes on the flight deck of the USS Forrestal, when the ship caught fire. Many Sailors died fighting the fire that lasted over 12 hours.
No, he is Not perfect, but no one is.

AS for the Stupid College Kid, there are Many of these idiots out and about, and there always has been. they where around in the 40's, 50's, etc.
Maybe tell him he should walk up to a Marine and say the same things about McCain.
then visit the kid in the hospital.

John McCain is about as close to being a Hero as we have these days.

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FattyJJ

About 50% of them would shake his hand my friend.

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zpr

I would say no more than 10% but would guess it would be significantly less than even that. There is no way in hell that 50% of the Marine Corps would disrespect a combat veteran and former POW like that.

FattyJJ

I should have been more specific. It depends on the generation of troops you talk to. 90% of the people I knew in the Marines felt the same way I did about the war and the people that supported it. I wasn't a grunt though, so the Marines I associated with had a bit more intelligence and better informed than some of those guys. Most of the members of our military are getting so stretched and fucked over by getting re-deployed over and over again, that if we did have this war for the length McCain wants, most of the senior members will not re-enlist. I am talking about the first and second timers mostly, but I could see many staff and officers feeling the strain as well.

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Jimi

I would knock the kid out, and then leave him on I-10 during rush hour.

McCain was a hero, he served his country, he was a POW, and he kept information while being tortured. I respect him more than I've respected a Republican in a long time. I would vote for him, but I think that American politics as a whole need to be revamped, and I don't think he's the man for the job.

Just because McCain is a Republican doesn't make him a bad person, it makes him naive.

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"I don't care if they're black, white, purple or green. Awww hold on now. Purple or green? You gotta draw the line somewhere. To hell with purple people. Unless they're suffocating. Then help them."


January 2009, the end of an error.

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zpr

Its nice that you say that with such ignorance. Fact is that though general infantry has the lowest required GT score, they have the highest average. That goes for Army and Marine Corps. You also have to understand that people tend to surround themselves with others that agree with them. One last thing to add would be that I know many Marines that would be very offended at your suggestion that they would disrespect a war hero.
You may not want him to be elected, but his actions show that he had the balls to completely follow through with his commitment. He didn't shirk his oath when he got scared.

fmb

There is always more to a candidate than the slivers of his/her life offered to us during the nightly news. It doesn't take long to do some research and find out more about a candidate.

If previously elected, what type of voting record? Able to work with opposing party? Able to move legislation when the bill was bogged down? What do they do with personal time? Do they support community organizations? College?

My point is don't let any single group determine how you cast your vote. Learn about all the candidates and make the choice you deem best. Remember, we have the elected person for four, possibly eight years. Let's try to get the biggest bang for our vote.