fmb

Difficult decisions must be made for our votes because we definitely have to pick from the least damaging of these two. I'm amazed this came to these two; I was expecting some serious offerings from at least one of the major parties.

BackdoorJesus

ok I'm stepping slightly out of line here in the Edge by going off topic, but Obamanation?

fuck dude - mad props and rep for that one!

sorry, not meaning to be overtly partisan in my rep-giving but that was just freakin' super clever

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Krasch

Gotta agree with BackdoorJesus, Obamanation is just too fricken' clever...

And yes, I agree that McCain has to pander some to the hardline Republicans out there. After all, there's a decent fraction of people out there who actually prefer a conservative government, which is one reason the Republicans traditionally do better than the Dems in Presidential elections. To alienate them would be cutting off his nose to spite his face and political suicide. Dubya has been far from the finest example of conservative politics, but McCain is a decidely different animal, and he needs that hardline support just as Obama needs the extreme leftist Democrats out there to embrace him.

FattyJJ

You can call me what you want, but unless you've served time in the Marines and seen the difference in the attitude of grunts and POG's (personnel other than grunts) you don't know what your talking about.

I understand completely that you choose who your buddies are, but you dont get to choose who you work with in the Military, you are put there and have to deal with who you work with. We used to sit in the field for hours, and on this topic, most of us agreed on. We, unlike grunts, were not constantly surrounded by people yelling at us to shoot whatever they tell us to.

John McCains actions tell me he knows to keep his mouth shut in order to help save other peoples lives. I admire that undeniably. It doesn't make him presidential material though. What I don't accept, is how a human being that was tortured, can advocate torture on other people.



Just curious, were you in the military?

joerockhead

I have never had "Water Boarding", but no one has died from it.
The Current POW's are in a pretty decent place. Real Food, three meals a day, time for tier religious practices, Warm and Dry bed.

Senator McCain got food. Not sure how much or how good it was. Doubt it was anything near the POW's today are getting.

Senator McCain got Beaten.
Fellow POW's DID die, where killed. Tortured to death.

And as far as SOME Marines not respecting McCain, then they are either listening to the Main Stream Media, or they are die hard Democrats.
But I highly doubt it is 50%.

Also, I know MANY military Member's that have been, are in and are going to Iraq. They know it is not easy, and can really suck. But the number's of those staying in or getting out are not much different then any other year.

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zpr

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I'm sorry if I came across as calling you names. That was not my intent. If you look up the word ignorant, you will see that is simply means that you are uninformed on the subject at hand. You say that grunts are the dumb ones when they have the highest average intelligence throughout the Army and Marine Corps. You are not the only only one here with a military background. I served almost 7 years before being medically discharged. I spent quite a bit of time training combined arms/cross branch. I worked with Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. I know the elitism that is shown by those in the rear and it doesn't change based on branch of service.



Again you are ignorant on this. When did you spend time in the field training with grunts to know what they do? How do you know they spend their time being yelled at? I know I didn't spend my time being yelled at and I served with Armor and Infantry. I also cross trained with Marine Armor and Infantry.
You are right that you don't get to choose who you work with, but, just the same as high school, there are cliques formed. You become a part of the clique that you relate with.




I was in the Army from 1997 to 2004. I did quite a bit of training as a student and as an instructor with all branches. I spent most of my time in combat arms, but worked in personnel offices while my med board was pending.

fmb

FattyJJ, I'd hope McCain would never condone torture of any prisoner. I haven't checked his stance on this subject and will do so. Thanks for the direction to check!

ddoubleez

He made an amazing sacrifice as a soldier, for that he is a hero....

As far as a politician goes, he is too quick to be agressive, and he has a worse record than Kerry as far as 'flip floping' goes..... He can not seem to stick to one pov, which means he maybe to easily influenced....

And for the relationship between his time as a pow and a politician, they are not a good mix.... I have yet to meet someone with ptsd that will not admit that it has changed their judgment and perception............

Krasch

Perhaps McCain IS somewhat flexible in his point of view at times, but isn't a major criticism of the current administration that they are too dogmatic and set in their ways? That they are too INflexible?

If so, isn't McCain's relative flip-floppery somewhat of a good thing?

It's one thing to have a set of core beliefs that guide you, it's another thing to be hidebound to those core beliefs and incapable of change.

Sheepe

Comparing on the issue of flipflopping, isn't Obama in the middle in this case, flexible, but determined...

Pity he is so against the military right now... (Cut spending, sure, slow developement siginificantly, nooooo...)

-Sheepe

joerockhead

Now this has changed. Obama says he is for a bigger Army, and bigger National Guard.
He also has "Adjusted" his opinion on the Iraq With drawl.

And he is being attacked for it.
Changing his mind and speaking differently. And he is Upset over the Media's comments on this.

However, the Topic of this thread is about McCain being a Hero, and not a politician. And we cannot seem to separate the two item. I know I keep commenting on it.

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Krasch

I wouldn't call him naive either, but sensible.

It's easy to be a Democrat when you're young, idealistic, and dare I say it, naive. Just look at the largely vacuous entertainment community in Hollywood and NYC alone and that explains California and New York's being Democrat strongholds. They live about as far from hardship as can be.

However, with experience and age, most people tend to become more conservative in their views and the way they live their lives as they struggle to make ends meet and raise their kids. They may not always VOTE that way, but it is the way they live. (Which also helps explain why Republicans tend to do better than the Democrats in Presidential elections) And for most people, if you're conservative, you're naturally drawn to the Republican party.

zpr

Someone once told me;
"If you aren't a Democrat by 20, you have no heart. If you aren't a Republican by 40, you have no brain."

ltfan

I normally don't come to this part of the forum, but the topic intrigued me. First I will say that I detest McCain, only slightly less than I detest Obama. However I do respect McCain for the service he has given this country, and he is a hero for it. It really sickens me the someone from the Obama camp sent out some stooges who are not up for election to do his dirty work. Yet another reason to detest him even more, and I am definitely showing up in November just to vote against Obama.